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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 4, 2024 18:56:30 GMT -5
All In made about 15 million bucks plus had over 46K fans. Good stuff. I'm hoping they can keep increasing this stuff. The more booming, the better. I think thereβs roughly 2,400 in attendance tonight. It literally bugs the hell out of me because I hate the way they have to present the show with only one side of the arena full. If they could average 5K - 7K a week that would be huge for them. It's true brother. 5K weekly would be amazing for them. 7K would be even better. As long as the business is booming, its all good. |
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Post by Back to the Codyverse on Sept 4, 2024 19:00:27 GMT -5
I think thereβs roughly 2,400 in attendance tonight. It literally bugs the hell out of me because I hate the way they have to present the show with only one side of the arena full. If they could average 5K - 7K a week that would be huge for them. It's true brother. 5K weekly would be amazing for them. 7K would be even better. As long as the business is booming, its all good. 3,500 weekly would be amazing for them at this point. Sure, Tony's dad has enough money they could book empty buildings forever but at some point you figure it beats down morale. When Moxley wears a sweatshirt that says "  the hard cam" then that tells you it's not only on their minds but it eats at them that it's a thing people make fun of |
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 4, 2024 19:04:19 GMT -5
It's true brother. 5K weekly would be amazing for them. 7K would be even better. As long as the business is booming, its all good. 3,500 weekly would be amazing for them at this point. Sure, Tony's dad has enough money they could book empty buildings forever but at some point you figure it beats down morale. When Moxley wears a sweatshirt that says " the hard cam" then that tells you it's not only on their minds but it eats at them that it's a thing people make fun of 3K weekly would be good enough. I'd say any not named WWE would struggle with weekly attendances tbh. AEW scoring even 2K weekly is crazy for a company like them. I'd just book smaller venues. Keep the capacity at 5K max instead of having 2K fans in a 10-15K capacity venue. |
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Post by Back to the Codyverse on Sept 4, 2024 19:06:59 GMT -5
3,500 weekly would be amazing for them at this point. Sure, Tony's dad has enough money they could book empty buildings forever but at some point you figure it beats down morale. When Moxley wears a sweatshirt that says " the hard cam" then that tells you it's not only on their minds but it eats at them that it's a thing people make fun of 3K weekly would be good enough. I'd say any not named WWE would struggle with weekly attendances tbh. AEW scoring even 2K weekly is crazy for a company like them. I'd just book smaller venues. Keep the capacity at 5K max instead of having 2K fans in a 10-15K capacity venue. I could get with what you're saying but we've seen AEW do 10,000+ in arenas. They've ran Wembley twice. The product has a fraction of fan interest it used to and until people realize it's more to it than just banger matches then the trend will continue as-is |
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switchbladeera
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Post by switchbladeera on Sept 4, 2024 21:22:10 GMT -5
I'd pose a slightly different reason for the attendance decline and interest. Saturation. Early dynamites were not great. Go back and watch em, some of the worst angles came year one, and there were plenty of crap matches too. But it was the only show. Now there's five hours a week of content plus a hot WWE, and aew build their touring schedule off cost efficiency seemingly instead of spreading out to not oversaturate a market.
Does current aew have issues with booking? Absolutely, but I'd argue they have a lot less than they did in the early stages when they were chasing down a struggling raw/sd. There's just too much wrestling for people to keep up with. With WWE I literally only watch the PPVs. I still don't catch all 5 hours of aew more weeks than I do, it's just too much to keep up with. People have very limited time and there's a million choices for entertainment out there.
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switchbladeera
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Post by switchbladeera on Sept 5, 2024 9:18:34 GMT -5
^^ after last night I'm going double or nothing on my comment above this. The company has always told stories despite what a lot of people would have you believe. (Not saying all those stories were good.... Nightmare collective π€’) but they've always had lots of stories. I still think hangman/Kenny is the best one they've ever told. But the product as a whole is so much better now than 5 years ago. The roster is 3* the quality as when it started, the womens division has done a total 180 and is now on par with any division in the world, the stories are back to being well thought out and long term but there's more hits than misses now, production is better, etc etc. "Declining fan interest" is a product of a lot of things, and I don't think it's remotely attributed to the overall quality of what they're putting out right now.
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Sept 6, 2024 4:23:25 GMT -5
Tony says AEW will be the second most profitable wrestling promotion of all time by 2025 overtaking WCW. That's fair considering AEW would now currently be entering the fall of 2000 stage when comparing their start to the WCW Nitro era.
Meaning 2025 will be the year All Elite completely takes over in terms of outlasting Nitro & overtaking profits in WCW's best years. Something that has already occured in terms of quality of product anyway.
One could still argue WCW in 96 & 97 was stronger. And I agree. But every other year from 95-2001, AEW blows them out of the water in terms of quality. Even various aspects of 96 & 97 they have been better than. Especially if we're talking 2019-2021.
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 6, 2024 9:12:51 GMT -5
3K weekly would be good enough. I'd say any not named WWE would struggle with weekly attendances tbh. AEW scoring even 2K weekly is crazy for a company like them. I'd just book smaller venues. Keep the capacity at 5K max instead of having 2K fans in a 10-15K capacity venue. I could get with what you're saying but we've seen AEW do 10,000+ in arenas. They've ran Wembley twice. The product has a fraction of fan interest it used to and until people realize it's more to it than just banger matches then the trend will continue as-is I'm still surprised they pulled it all off. Tony gotta hire a serious team to develop better storylines, better creative etc and then eventually they'd get more successful again. 5K for Dynamites/Collisions & then 10K for PPVs would be great attendance numbers. |
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Post by switchbladeera on Sept 6, 2024 9:32:16 GMT -5
^ I don't understand this argument. No hate, but I legit don't get it. They're not getting WWE people over in any kind of numbers while WWE is hot. It's just not happening. The audience they've lost is part of their og audience, and the complaints were that it was becoming too much like WWE. Bringing in a 'creative' team of writers would be a step in the wrong direction there. They do have a creative team. I forget who is all on it but they've got like a half dozen key people involved.
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 6, 2024 9:44:01 GMT -5
^ I don't understand this argument. No hate, but I legit don't get it. They're not getting WWE people over in any kind of numbers while WWE is hot. It's just not happening. The audience they've lost is part of their og audience, and the complaints were that it was becoming too much like WWE. Bringing in a 'creative' team of writers would be a step in the wrong direction there. They do have a creative team. I forget who is all on it but they've got like a half dozen key people involved. They just need better storylines for most of the talent. They also gotta aim to attract a more casual audience instead of the usual loyal fanbase. |
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Post by Back to the Codyverse on Sept 6, 2024 9:45:51 GMT -5
The audience they've lost is part of their og audience, and the complaints were that it was becoming too much like WWE. Problem 1 - part of the OG audience is gone Problem 2 - being too much like WWE isn't drawing in WWE fans You've said you think the roster and wrestling is better than ever. Stories, too. So where are the numbers to prove it? I can understand the cable argument and people watching in various ways but what I don't get is the low attendance. Tickets never seem too expensive imo so if the wrestling is THAT good and there's a big sector of hardcores that think everyone is missing out.. seems like a lot of people are missing out Make no mistake. I want AEW with weekly attendance that rivals WWE. Beats WWE. I want Monday Night War vibes. I want the bickering and back and forth and shots fired and talent switching sides. AEW has some great stuff. Also not so great stuff and that comes with the territory but there's been a significant drop off in viewership and attendance. To each their own but I'd rather watch a game in a packed stadium. They might have had a great game down the road where attendance was low but it's hard to beat the live feel of a packed arena plus it looks and sounds better on TV This is all my opinion tho and some folks have a hard time with that |
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Sept 6, 2024 11:20:44 GMT -5
^ I don't understand this argument. No hate, but I legit don't get it. They're not getting WWE people over in any kind of numbers while WWE is hot. It's just not happening. The audience they've lost is part of their og audience, and the complaints were that it was becoming too much like WWE. Bringing in a 'creative' team of writers would be a step in the wrong direction there. They do have a creative team. I forget who is all on it but they've got like a half dozen key people involved. They just need better storylines for most of the talent. They also gotta aim to attract a more casual audience instead of the usual loyal fanbase. Screw the casual fans. They don't spend money on the promotion anyway. If the show is good, it will attract anyone, hardcore fan or not. |
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Post by βππ£π ππ ππππ on Sept 6, 2024 11:32:07 GMT -5
Tony says AEW will be the second most profitable wrestling promotion of all time by 2025 overtaking WCW. That's fair considering AEW would now currently be entering the fall of 2000 stage when comparing their start to the WCW Nitro era. Meaning 2025 will be the year All Elite completely takes over in terms of outlasting Nitro & overtaking profits in WCW's best years. Something that has already occured in terms of quality of product anyway. One could still argue WCW in 96 & 97 was stronger. And I agree. But every other year from 95-2001, AEW blows them out of the water in terms of quality. Even various aspects of 96 & 97 they have been better than. Especially if we're talking 2019-2021. I'd say its super hard to tell these company's metrics apart -- one being a truly independently-owned wrestling company with a TV deal and the other being a wrestling company owned by a television company. Tons of ways Turner could've (legally and by acceptable accounting practices) manipulated WCW's debts or profits through out other Turner entities. People within Turner truly did not want WCW to succeed minus the 18 months or so that it was printing cash at its highest level. It never had a TV deal that brought in a huge income stream, its budgeting is way different being a privately owned company vs a television subsidary. But I personally think, TK is on to something by saying this. AEW has no signs of being done anytime soon at this point, its going to outlast WCW's entire Nitro run and they are very much still in their infancy stages of the business regardless of how ambitious they've been and how much they've grown since 2019. |
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Post by J-MANN on Sept 6, 2024 12:22:11 GMT -5
I saw this today- and this is my biggest concern  I DO want them to turn this around |
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 6, 2024 12:51:50 GMT -5
They just need better storylines for most of the talent. They also gotta aim to attract a more casual audience instead of the usual loyal fanbase. Screw the casual fans. They don't spend money on the promotion anyway. If the show is good, it will attract anyone, hardcore fan or not.Β As long as the product is good & booming, its a win. |
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switchbladeera
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Post by switchbladeera on Sept 6, 2024 12:54:50 GMT -5
Just trying to dodge a million quote chains lol: Back to the CodyverseI think** it has a lot more to do with just the sheer volume of wrestling around, and them overdoing it in key markets i.e. Chicago, Vegas, etc. Heck even their first full Canadian tour. They hit Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, and Saskatoon all within a month. We're all the same audience there! If they were more spread out I'd have gone to all 4, but they were so close together it was impossible to justify. I think there's also likely a large portion that they lost when things were rough (Re: around the time Punk got fired and the disaster that was the MJF/Adam Cole storyline) that just haven't come back and have moved on. I don't know how you convince those people to give it a second chance. Could also be a large portion where people are just busy. There are a lot of things we can be entertained with and sometimes we just fall out of them even if the quality is still high. I love tennis, I don't really watch it anymore. I watched playoff hockey for the first time in like six years this year. Quality of the game is actually higher, just not high enough on my priority chain. I'm guessing for a lot of folks, that's what wrestling is. I could be way off. And yes, a packed stadium is way better. Heck we only had 2500 in Regina or something like that, but it was a small building and jam packed, and it sounded louder on tv there than a half full larger arena in Calgary did! ASR (therockisback) We've heard this "casual fan" thing for 5 straight years now. Who are these people? How do you appeal to them? Hangman burning Swerve's childhood home down seems like a pretty "casual fan" friendly idea. |
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switchbladeera
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Post by switchbladeera on Sept 6, 2024 12:56:54 GMT -5
I saw this today- and this is my biggest concern I DO want them to turn this around This is absolutely a huge concern. My biggest concern too. TV ratings aren't great, but they're still consistently top 5 on Wednesdays, often winning, so they'll still get a really good TV deal even if it isn't what it could have been in 2021. Attendance is the big danger, and it's in a lot of trouble. I'm hoping* breaking into some new markets like Australia and trying to do more of those things could help, they've definitely killed a few of their key markets. |
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 6, 2024 13:01:21 GMT -5
Just trying to dodge a million quote chains lol: Back to the CodyverseI think** it has a lot more to do with just the sheer volume of wrestling around, and them overdoing it in key markets i.e. Chicago, Vegas, etc. Heck even their first full Canadian tour. They hit Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, and Saskatoon all within a month. We're all the same audience there! If they were more spread out I'd have gone to all 4, but they were so close together it was impossible to justify. I think there's also likely a large portion that they lost when things were rough (Re: around the time Punk got fired and the disaster that was the MJF/Adam Cole storyline) that just haven't come back and have moved on. I don't know how you convince those people to give it a second chance. Could also be a large portion where people are just busy. There are a lot of things we can be entertained with and sometimes we just fall out of them even if the quality is still high. I love tennis, I don't really watch it anymore. I watched playoff hockey for the first time in like six years this year. Quality of the game is actually higher, just not high enough on my priority chain. I'm guessing for a lot of folks, that's what wrestling is. I could be way off. And yes, a packed stadium is way better. Heck we only had 2500 in Regina or something like that, but it was a small building and jam packed, and it sounded louder on tv there than a half full larger arena in Calgary did!Β ASR (therockisback)Β We've heard this "casual fan" thing for 5 straight years now. Who are these people? How do you appeal to them? Hangman burning Swerve's childhood home down seems like a pretty "casual fan" friendly idea.Β Whoever is willing to watch & attend shows lol, casual or loyal fans. I just wanna see em shine as a company |
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 6, 2024 13:03:08 GMT -5
The audience they've lost is part of their og audience, and the complaints were that it was becoming too much like WWE. Problem 1 - part of the OG audience is gone Problem 2 - being too much like WWE isn't drawing in WWE fans You've said you think the roster and wrestling is better than ever. Stories, too. So where are the numbers to prove it? I can understand the cable argument and people watching in various ways but what I don't get is the low attendance. Tickets never seem too expensive imo so if the wrestling is THAT good and there's a big sector of hardcores that think everyone is missing out.. seems like a lot of people are missing out Make no mistake. I want AEW with weekly attendance that rivals WWE. Beats WWE. I want Monday Night War vibes. I want the bickering and back and forth and shots fired and talent switching sides. AEW has some great stuff. Also not so great stuff and that comes with the territory but there's been a significant drop off in viewership and attendance. To each their own but I'd rather watch a game in a packed stadium. They might have had a great game down the road where attendance was low but it's hard to beat the live feel of a packed arena plus it looks and sounds better on TV This is all my opinion tho and some folks have a hard time with that Exactly brother. I just wanna have em all succeed. The business gotta stay booming. It's always great to hear the success stories instead of the negative aspects. |
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Post by Back to the Codyverse on Sept 6, 2024 13:12:43 GMT -5
switchbladeera I can't help but put most of the blame on the Punk/Elite situation. Compound that with the Bucks antics/character work... it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of many I have no issue with saying that while I was never a Bucks fan, I see them as a complete joke these days and I don't think I'm alone. Also much like with Jericho, whoever is in the feud/segment with the Bucks gets dragged down Kenny seems to be the only one to have ever had a level head about all that drama and it's a shame how it all worked out
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