JDragonM32
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 17, 2008 2:47:58 GMT -5
Posts: 411
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Post by JDragonM32 on Nov 25, 2020 1:43:39 GMT -5
But. Jazwares. Doesn’t. Make. Money. On. Secondary. Market. Purchases. Yes, they do, just not directly. It's a "loss leader," in a sense, although not explicitly or by definition. I also don't think they intended for these hiccups to happen, so series 2 secondary prices were not an expected outcome. We were informed of series 1 and 2 being limited, but not of series 2 being so limited. It was an accident, and one that will likely be fixed. That makes no sense? A loss leader product is something you sell at a loss in hopes of increasing sales of other items (eg board games and expansion packs, the core/base set might be a loss leader). For AEW, the Authentic Scale Ring maybe would make sense as a loss leader (although I doubt it). how do they make ANY money from the secondary market? They get money from initial retail sales and that’s it, unless Jazwares or Jeremy are fraudulently selling them on eBay at ‘secondary market’ prices themselves (note that I am in no way implying that either Jeremy or Jazwares are doing this, merely pointing out that it’s the only way they would make money from the secondary market)
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Post by Odafin Tutuola on Nov 25, 2020 2:45:44 GMT -5
Really I dont care when these finally come out as I will get them either way but there are no excuses for how poor this launch has been. Pumped the hell out of these only for them not to be released on time, then only to select stores, then never restocking, and finally the mystery of the chase figures. They are showing series 4 figures and they can't even get series 2 produced to sell them. Way ahead of themselves here. Granted the Sammy is awesome looking but they are doing themselves no favors showing future product when you can't even buy what should be current product. I agree with everything you said, this line is a hit or miss but more of a miss. How in the do you send Ringside Collectibles a small amount of Series 2 and it's a damn guessing game when they should get more in and fulfill those who pre-order on day one. When Jeremy posts stuff about AEW figures on either Twitter and Instagram and you call him out on his bullcraphe'll block you like a snowflake. The only series 2 figure I have in my collection is a blood version of Dustin Rhodes from the Ringside Collectibles exclusive with Cody Rhodes. I get it Covid ed everything up but Mattel has been releasing a crapton of figures.
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 28, 2024 5:10:40 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 7:08:15 GMT -5
Really I dont care when these finally come out as I will get them either way but there are no excuses for how poor this launch has been. Pumped the hell out of these only for them not to be released on time, then only to select stores, then never restocking, and finally the mystery of the chase figures. They are showing series 4 figures and they can't even get series 2 produced to sell them. Way ahead of themselves here. Granted the Sammy is awesome looking but they are doing themselves no favors showing future product when you can't even buy what should be current product. I agree with everything you said, this line is a hit or miss but more of a miss. How in the do you send Ringside Collectibles a small amount of Series 2 and it's a damn guessing game when they should get more in and fulfill those who pre-order on day one. When Jeremy posts stuff about AEW figures on either Twitter and Instagram and you call him out on his bullcrap he'll block you like a snowflake. The only series 2 figure I have in my collection is a blood version of Dustin Rhodes from the Ringside Collectibles exclusive with Cody Rhodes. I get it Covid ed everything up but Mattel has been releasing a crap ton of figures. Mattel also owns their factories. Jazwares doesn't.
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 28, 2024 5:10:40 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 9:09:26 GMT -5
Yes, they do, just not directly. It's a "loss leader," in a sense, although not explicitly or by definition. I also don't think they intended for these hiccups to happen, so series 2 secondary prices were not an expected outcome. We were informed of series 1 and 2 being limited, but not of series 2 being so limited. It was an accident, and one that will likely be fixed. That makes no sense? A loss leader product is something you sell at a loss in hopes of increasing sales of other items (eg board games and expansion packs, the core/base set might be a loss leader). For AEW, the Authentic Scale Ring maybe would make sense as a loss leader (although I doubt it). how do they make ANY money from the secondary market? They get money from initial retail sales and that’s it, unless Jazwares or Jeremy are fraudulently selling them on eBay at ‘secondary market’ prices themselves (note that I am in no way implying that either Jeremy or Jazwares are doing this, merely pointing out that it’s the only way they would make money from the secondary market) That's why I said, "...in a sense, although not explicitly or by definition." It's not the 1.50 Costco food court combo, but if there is additional money being made in the secondary market, WCT is fine to leave it on the table in favor for hyping the line. They 100% make money from the secondary market, by using FOMO to drive sales. Look at the Wii, or read my example about it some posts back. Another example I could give, this time not using "artificial scarcity/FOMO" as as the basis, is this; someone knows that these figures are limited, so they buy all three complete sets available at the store. He only wanted one set, but he purchases 18 figures to flip. Yes, WCT will not see the ADDITIONAL money on 12 of those figures, but people who might not have access to them in their area (small town, distribution problems, etc.), or are impatient, will now have used an alternate method to acquire them. Those 12 additional figures still sold for the retail price those who were unable to pay would have paid. The original buyer lives in an area where additional people might have bought them, and this scenario might never have played out. They still would have made the same money. From their perspective, it would seem that by all measurable factors they can control by using their business strategy, they have sold out of the figures in that area. It looks the same to them, on paper. In addition, one could make a point that this is a way for people to get the figures in areas/countries where not available. WCT still gets the money from the initial sale, and from a consumer in an area with no agreements to sell these figures. If the FOMO strategy was not used, extra figures might hang on the pegs in one area, and those who wanted them in other areas might note be willing to purchase them on the secondary market for a host of reasons. This isn't Fortnite or Pokemon (Jazwares licenses), where (almost) everything will eventually sell. ***Side Note: I've also wondered if the limited runs of AEW Unrivaled were due to prioritizing larger lines getting produced in the factories. I don't think it's a conspiracy, or anything, but those products are everywhere, and I buy several a year for the kiddos in my family. I'm sure many adults can echo this sentiment, and much fewer could for wrestling.
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Post by stc13 on Nov 25, 2020 9:38:37 GMT -5
That makes no sense? A loss leader product is something you sell at a loss in hopes of increasing sales of other items (eg board games and expansion packs, the core/base set might be a loss leader). For AEW, the Authentic Scale Ring maybe would make sense as a loss leader (although I doubt it). how do they make ANY money from the secondary market? They get money from initial retail sales and that’s it, unless Jazwares or Jeremy are fraudulently selling them on eBay at ‘secondary market’ prices themselves (note that I am in no way implying that either Jeremy or Jazwares are doing this, merely pointing out that it’s the only way they would make money from the secondary market) That's why I said, "...in a sense, although not explicitly or by definition." It's not the 1.50 Costco food court combo, but if there is additional money being made in the secondary market, WCT is fine to leave it on the table in favor for hyping the line. They 100% make money from the secondary market, by using FOMO to drive sales. Look at the Wii, or read my example about it some posts back. Another example I could give, this time not using "artificial scarcity/FOMO" as as the basis, is this; someone knows that these figures are limited, so they buy all three complete sets available at the store. He only wanted one set, but he purchases 18 figures to flip. Yes, WCT will not see the ADDITIONAL money on 12 of those figures, but people who might not have access to them in their area (small town, distribution problems, etc.), or are impatient, will now have used an alternate method to acquire them. Those 12 additional figures still sold for the retail price those who were unable to pay would have paid. The original buyer lives in an area where additional people might have bought them, and this scenario might never have played out. They still would have made the same money. From their perspective, it would seem that by all measurable factors they can control by using their business strategy, they have sold out of the figures in that area. It looks the same to them, on paper. In addition, one could make a point that this is a way for people to get the figures in areas/countries where not available. WCT still gets the money from the initial sale, and from a consumer in an area with no agreements to sell these figures. If the FOMO strategy was not used, extra figures might hang on the pegs in one area, and those who wanted them in other areas might note be willing to purchase them on the secondary market for a host of reasons. This isn't Fortnite or Pokemon (Jazwares licenses), where (almost) everything will eventually sell. ***Side Note: I've also wondered if the limited runs of AEW Unrivaled were due to prioritizing larger lines getting produced in the factories. I don't think it's a conspiracy, or anything, but those products are everywhere, and I buy several a year for the kiddos in my family. I'm sure many adults can echo this sentiment, and much fewer could for wrestling. It's not an apples to apples comparison, but I look at Funko as an example of the strategy executed to perfection. They've essentially built their own ecosystem with fanatical collectors and using brilliant marketing and collector engagement to cultivate that into insane secondary market prices. Creating pieces that drive the collector market is absolutely a key part of their business model, and it's very intentional. Some of the figures that sell for crazy money aren't even of prominent licenses or characters - it's just some obscure figure that people are willing to drop crazy money on because it's perceived as rare or a "grail." Having it in your collection becomes a status symbol, even if it's not a figure you find particularly interesting or desirable in and of itself. Funko doesn't directly benefit from any of those secondary market prices, but it feeds back into their sales at retail, conventions, and their direct to consumer store. People keep buying figures because they're rare, or they might shoot up in value. They're making a ton of money off of the collector base they've cultivated, and the thrill of the chase or owning something "valuable" continues to draw in new collectors/speculators. And with the number of licenses they continue to acquire and the stores that continue to request exclusive pieces, you can absolutely bet that the strategy is paying off for Funko and for retailers. It's a business, and at the end of the day that's what matters. I'm not a fan of the chase strategy, and quite honestly it annoys me. But Jeremy is a smart guy who has been successful, and he's working from an established playbook.
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Post by WOOOOOO on Nov 25, 2020 11:24:35 GMT -5
That's why I said, "...in a sense, although not explicitly or by definition." It's not the 1.50 Costco food court combo, but if there is additional money being made in the secondary market, WCT is fine to leave it on the table in favor for hyping the line. They 100% make money from the secondary market, by using FOMO to drive sales. Look at the Wii, or read my example about it some posts back. Another example I could give, this time not using "artificial scarcity/FOMO" as as the basis, is this; someone knows that these figures are limited, so they buy all three complete sets available at the store. He only wanted one set, but he purchases 18 figures to flip. Yes, WCT will not see the ADDITIONAL money on 12 of those figures, but people who might not have access to them in their area (small town, distribution problems, etc.), or are impatient, will now have used an alternate method to acquire them. Those 12 additional figures still sold for the retail price those who were unable to pay would have paid. The original buyer lives in an area where additional people might have bought them, and this scenario might never have played out. They still would have made the same money. From their perspective, it would seem that by all measurable factors they can control by using their business strategy, they have sold out of the figures in that area. It looks the same to them, on paper. In addition, one could make a point that this is a way for people to get the figures in areas/countries where not available. WCT still gets the money from the initial sale, and from a consumer in an area with no agreements to sell these figures. If the FOMO strategy was not used, extra figures might hang on the pegs in one area, and those who wanted them in other areas might note be willing to purchase them on the secondary market for a host of reasons. This isn't Fortnite or Pokemon (Jazwares licenses), where (almost) everything will eventually sell. ***Side Note: I've also wondered if the limited runs of AEW Unrivaled were due to prioritizing larger lines getting produced in the factories. I don't think it's a conspiracy, or anything, but those products are everywhere, and I buy several a year for the kiddos in my family. I'm sure many adults can echo this sentiment, and much fewer could for wrestling. It's not an apples to apples comparison, but I look at Funko as an example of the strategy executed to perfection. They've essentially built their own ecosystem with fanatical collectors and using brilliant marketing and collector engagement to cultivate that into insane secondary market prices. Creating pieces that drive the collector market is absolutely a key part of their business model, and it's very intentional. Some of the figures that sell for crazy money aren't even of prominent licenses or characters - it's just some obscure figure that people are willing to drop crazy money on because it's perceived as rare or a "grail." Having it in your collection becomes a status symbol, even if it's not a figure you find particularly interesting or desirable in and of itself. Funko doesn't directly benefit from any of those secondary market prices, but it feeds back into their sales at retail, conventions, and their direct to consumer store. People keep buying figures because they're rare, or they might shoot up in value. They're making a ton of money off of the collector base they've cultivated, and the thrill of the chase or owning something "valuable" continues to draw in new collectors/speculators. And with the number of licenses they continue to acquire and the stores that continue to request exclusive pieces, you can absolutely bet that the strategy is paying off for Funko and for retailers. It's a business, and at the end of the day that's what matters. I'm not a fan of the chase strategy, and quite honestly it annoys me. But Jeremy is a smart guy who has been successful, and he's working from an established playbook. Id agree with u on the funko comparison woth a big exception though. When funko puts put a street date the product is in stores on that date. Walmart the exception sometimes but Target is on point t woth those for the most part. Also the chase figures are obtainable and people know where they are at. The numbered funko pieces yes very hard to get and gone in seconds typically. The major difference here is that funko puts product on shelves and meets the dates they put out in public. The model jazwares has would work as well if the product actually found its way to stores. I still don't think the chase jericho and Cody figures have found light of day for the most part.
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Post by stc13 on Nov 25, 2020 12:33:39 GMT -5
It's not an apples to apples comparison, but I look at Funko as an example of the strategy executed to perfection. They've essentially built their own ecosystem with fanatical collectors and using brilliant marketing and collector engagement to cultivate that into insane secondary market prices. Creating pieces that drive the collector market is absolutely a key part of their business model, and it's very intentional. Some of the figures that sell for crazy money aren't even of prominent licenses or characters - it's just some obscure figure that people are willing to drop crazy money on because it's perceived as rare or a "grail." Having it in your collection becomes a status symbol, even if it's not a figure you find particularly interesting or desirable in and of itself. Funko doesn't directly benefit from any of those secondary market prices, but it feeds back into their sales at retail, conventions, and their direct to consumer store. People keep buying figures because they're rare, or they might shoot up in value. They're making a ton of money off of the collector base they've cultivated, and the thrill of the chase or owning something "valuable" continues to draw in new collectors/speculators. And with the number of licenses they continue to acquire and the stores that continue to request exclusive pieces, you can absolutely bet that the strategy is paying off for Funko and for retailers. It's a business, and at the end of the day that's what matters. I'm not a fan of the chase strategy, and quite honestly it annoys me. But Jeremy is a smart guy who has been successful, and he's working from an established playbook. Id agree with u on the funko comparison woth a big exception though. When funko puts put a street date the product is in stores on that date. Walmart the exception sometimes but Target is on point t woth those for the most part. Also the chase figures are obtainable and people know where they are at. The numbered funko pieces yes very hard to get and gone in seconds typically. The major difference here is that funko puts product on shelves and meets the dates they put out in public. The model jazwares has would work as well if the product actually found its way to stores. I still don't think the chase jericho and Cody figures have found light of day for the most part. Like I said - definitely not apples to apples. And I completely agree that the launch/rollout has been a mess. But in terms of the debate over whether secondary market prices impact the manufacturer's bottom line? I think it's an apt comparison in strategy. Being able to execute that strategy is a different story. And I don't think anyone can/will execute it better than Funko. I'm not a fan of the product, but the way they've built a rabid fanbase and cultivated a ridiculous secondary market has been off the charts.
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