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Post by "The Visionary" Eldniw on Dec 12, 2013 15:43:37 GMT -5
Yay! Another awesome signing by the esteemed Ruben Amaro! The guy who faked his name to pitch in the bigs. The former Fausto Carmona or whatever.
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Post by Chip on Dec 12, 2013 18:25:47 GMT -5
Joba to the tigers huh? good luck to him
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Post by Justin on Dec 12, 2013 18:27:20 GMT -5
So apparently the Yankees don't want to trade Gardner for Phillips, they want to trade Gardner for a pitcher
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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Dec 12, 2013 18:36:06 GMT -5
Ehhhhhhhh I'd trade Gardner for Phillips.
The bottom line is that the Yankees HAVE to get rid of Gardner. Gardner doesn't even make $3 million dollars per season. He's a Free Agent at the end of 2014. If the Yankees offer him the qualifying offer, his salary will jump to almost $15 MILLION. So they literally CAN'T offer him the qualifying offer or he gets paid almost 8 times as much. So if they DON'T offer him the qualifying offer and he signs elsewhere, they get no Draft pick!
So now is the time to trade Gardner for whatever you can get because even if it's Phillips, he'll be your 2nd baseman for the next 4 seasons and he drives in over 100 RBI's on a team with an offense NOT as good as the Yankees will be, so I think he'd be fine for us.
I'd actually rather the Yankees NOT trade Gardner for a pitcher because right now we have 3 pitchers.
1. CC Sabathia
2. Hiroki Kuroda
3. Ivan Nova
I want the Yankees to get Masahiro Tanaka, and I also want to FINALLY see what Michael Pineda can do. If Michael Pineda doesn't pan out, we always have David Phelps as a fallback.
So getting another pitcher in a trade for Gardner means if you get Tanaka then Pineda doesn't get a chance to play.
The Yankees could do, and probably will do, a LOT worse than Brandon Phillips....so maybe they shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth if Cincy REALLY does want to trade us Brett Gardner straight up for a 100+ RBI 2B.
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Post by Chip on Dec 12, 2013 19:00:03 GMT -5
i still dont get the Gardner hate what would be so bad about them keeping him and after this season giving him a 4 - 5 year contract? he's not going to command $15 million per year. Why not work out a deal. Gardner is a good baseball player. He doesn't  up, he doesn't look lost. He does his damn job. Yes his speed might drop off a bit, but no team is going to break the bank for the guy anyway....so why not just plan to try and keep him. At the very least, let him play through the season to build up his value and they could unload at the deadline. Gardner has literally done NOTHING wrong....why does he have to be dumped off like yesterdays trash? |
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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Dec 12, 2013 19:21:22 GMT -5
i still dont get the Gardner hate what would be so bad about them keeping him and after this season giving him a 4 - 5 year contract? he's not going to command $15 million per year. Why not work out a deal. Gardner is a good baseball player. He doesn't up, he doesn't look lost. He does his damn job. Yes his speed might drop off a bit, but no team is going to break the bank for the guy anyway....so why not just plan to try and keep him. At the very least, let him play through the season to build up his value and they could unload at the deadline. Gardner has literally done NOTHING wrong....why does he have to be dumped off like yesterdays trash? It's not "Gardner hate"...it's just the simple fact that 100+ RBI 2b's are harder to come by than fast outfielders who barely hit. I'd like to know that I have that for at least the next 4 years. And as far as Gardner goes....yeah, great fielder, and a very fast runner. However despite his great speed he's a HORRIBLE base stealer. Waiting for Brett Gardner to steal is like waiting for water to boil....he gets on first base and just NEVER GOES. He needs to be a IMPACT PLAYER, not somebody who anchors their ass to firs base. I guess just just like throwing hard doesn't make you a good "pitcher", being FAST doesn't make you a good base stealer. We don't know what type of players Mason Williams, Tyler Austin, Slade Heathcott, and Zoilo Almonte are going to be going into 2015. You very well may have your replacement for Gardner in house already. We already have too many OF's this year, and we'll have Ellsbury and Beltran in 2015, so one more starting OF and a backup away from being set for 2015 already. I'm just saying it's easier to replace Gardner than just randomly stumble upon a 2b that's going to drive in 100 RBI's, so if I can turn Gardner into something more valuable...then I think it's a worthwhile move. |
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Post by ICW on Dec 12, 2013 19:56:07 GMT -5
i still dont get the Gardner hate what would be so bad about them keeping him and after this season giving him a 4 - 5 year contract? he's not going to command $15 million per year. Why not work out a deal. Gardner is a good baseball player. He doesn't up, he doesn't look lost. He does his damn job. Yes his speed might drop off a bit, but no team is going to break the bank for the guy anyway....so why not just plan to try and keep him. At the very least, let him play through the season to build up his value and they could unload at the deadline. Gardner has literally done NOTHING wrong....why does he have to be dumped off like yesterdays trash? It's not "Gardner hate".. .it's just the simple fact that 100+ RBI 2b's are harder to come by than fast outfielders who barely hit. I'd like to know that I have that for at least the next 4 years. And as far as Gardner goes....yeah, great fielder, and a very fast runner. However despite his great speed he's a HORRIBLE base stealer. Waiting for Brett Gardner to steal is like waiting for water to boil....he gets on first base and just NEVER GOES. He needs to be a IMPACT PLAYER, not somebody who anchors their ass to firs base. I guess just just like throwing hard doesn't make you a good "pitcher", being FAST doesn't make you a good base stealer. We don't know what type of players Mason Williams, Tyler Austin, Slade Heathcott, and Zoilo Almonte are going to be going into 2015. You very well may have your replacement for Gardner in house already. We already have too many OF's this year, and we'll have Ellsbury and Beltran in 2015, so one more starting OF and a backup away from being set for 2015 already. I'm just saying it's easier to replace Gardner than just randomly stumble upon a 2b that's going to drive in 100 RBI's, so if I can turn Gardner into something more valuable...then I think it's a worthwhile move. RBI's are a terrible way to judge a player's offensive production. That's not even me being all sabrmetrics on you, it's just not a very telling static. The guys at RAB did a great examination of Phillips and why the Yanks shouldn't acquire him. You can read it here: riveraveblues.com/2013/12/no-more-mentions-of-brandon-phillips-please-97285/If you don't feel like reading it (it's a really short read) here are some of the highlights from their post: "Despite his reputation, Phillips has been decidedly average during his career, *a 96 OPS+ in his 12-year career*. Granted, the first four years came in Cleveland, where he performed poorly, to be kind. Even if you lop off those years, he has a career 100 OPS+ — exactly average." *NOTE: His career 96 OPS+ is four points below league average "It seems Phillips’s reputation stems from the power he generated early in his career, and the outstanding season he produced in 2011. His 30-homer season in 2007 certainly stands out, as do his 88 homers from 2006 through 2009. Unfortunately, his power has taken a bit of a dip, as he’s hit 72 homers in the four years that followed (the most recent four years)." "In 2011 Phillips enjoy by far and wide the best season of his career, a 118 OPS+. Yet it appears that almost the entire difference between his 2011 and the rest of his career rests entirely in batting average. His walk rate and power were nearly identical to his 2010 campaign. The difference was that he hit .300 (.322 BABIP). For his career he is a .271 hitter (.291 BABIP)." "Phillips, on the other hand, saw his power take a dip after his 20-homer season in 2009, hitting 18 in each of the last four years. That might not seem so bad, until you compound that with a decline in the number of doubles he’s hit*. His walk rate did rise from 2012 to 2013, but it’s still lower than the 6.5 percent rate he produced from 2008 through 2011. What was once a pretty good bat might not be a good one any longer." **NOTE: "He hit 38, a career high, in 2011, after hitting 33 in 2010. Going from a career high 38 to 30, and then to 24 in 2013 isn’t necessarily decline. But it looks more that way when you eliminate the outlier and see that he’s gone from 33 to 30 to 24 from 2010 to 2013, minus 2011.Here's his main point about Phillips for Gardner" " In the wake of the Ellsbury signing, I’ve seen more than one person suggest that trading Brett Gardner for Phillips makes sense. As I outline above, that’s not a great deal for the Yankees based on Phillips alone. But did you know that Gardner and Phillips share similar career numbers? Did you know that they have nearly identical OPS+s in the last four years (Gardner is a single point ahead, actually)?Gardner will likely make half of what Phillips earns this year. I’m willing to bet that the Yankees can sign Gardner to a four-year deal worth less than the $39 million Phillips is owed in the final three years of his deal. True, there is something to be said about positional need. There is also something to be said about value. In the next four years I’m willing to wager that Gardner is worth every bit as much as Phillips, both at the plate and in the field. Add in a substantially lower contract, and it’s a no-brainer.To give up anything of value for Phillips, without getting back about half of his contract, is sheer lunacy. The Yankees might, in the near future, have a need at second base. They’d be better off handing the position to Kelly Johnson. Hell, they’d be infinitely better off signing Omar Infante, who will be far cheaper than Phillips, to fill the role. Infante is also an average hitter.Phillips has name value, no doubt. But the Yankees have added plenty of that this off-season. Do they really need to give up real, live baseball players for Brandon Phillips, an average hitter who is paid like a very good one? Paying for their own free agents is one thing. Paying for the mistakes of other teams? Only if it comes with a pot sweetener. Something tells me that’s not the mindset the Reds have in a potential Phillips deal." " ---- Essentially, Phillips doesn't offer much offensively AND he wanted to re-open his contract in order to be traded here. |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 13, 2013 10:58:34 GMT -5
I am just enjoying the ridiculous "The Yankees don't have enough money to keep this player!!!!" argument. Cracks me up.
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Post by Justin on Dec 13, 2013 11:05:29 GMT -5
Boone Logan signed with Rockies
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Post by Chip on Dec 13, 2013 11:30:22 GMT -5
Boone Logan signed with Rockies |
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Post by Jimmy on Dec 13, 2013 11:52:12 GMT -5
I am a sabremetric guy, too bad all of that analysis doesn't factor in that while 100+ OPS+ is league average, 2B is a position where offensive production is at a premium. I can't find the exact number, but there's no way 100+ is the league average OPS+ for NL second basemen.
BP is overpaid, but not grossly so. He is coming off his worst year offensively as a Red, but he did battle a hand injury all year. I do fear that his numbers may be heading off a cliff but teams could do a lot worse at 2B, and so could we. I don't want to give him up just for the sake of giving him up, which seems to be somewhat likely given that he seems to have worn out his welcome in Cincinnati.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Dec 13, 2013 12:22:07 GMT -5
Brandon Phillips is getting older, getting worse, and kinda a dick. Will he mix with the Yankees?
There is no rush to trade Gardner...Ellsbury isnt iron man, Soriano/Wells/Ichiro/Beltran, you think they will all play 150 games?
If you can get a solid SP or something with Phillips, then go for it. Just no need to trade him for Phillips who frankly, is only gonna get worse.
Also, the Yankees are going to have a BOTTOM 5 farm system next year. Someone on BA said bottom 3....so if you wanna rely on the "Mason Williams and Tyler Austins" of the world....good luck.
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Post by Chip on Dec 13, 2013 13:48:20 GMT -5
im so glad the Yankee fanbase is working to change their image.... with the thousands of hate-tweets towards Cano to try and get a "laugh". i'll lay it out like this.... Cano had every right to do what he did. Seattle made him an offer than no other team was going to. In the end it really is all about money to 90% of athletes. We all wish inside that our favorite players actually valued the idea that the team they play for should be their team for life....but as it's been showed, NO ONE is untouchable. Maybe the Yankees lowballed him a bit, but that's part of the contract game. He didn't even want to play, then Seattle comes out with that 10 year thing and it was over. Dustin Pedroia (who is almost as good as Cano, and to be honest has more awards/achievements than Cano) took a "discount" to stay wth HIS team. In the end he will go down as an all time great Red Sox player, that kind of stuff is irreplaceable. I think what happened was that we (Yankees fans) saw Cano dump Boras and sign with Jay-Z.....who is NY's golden boy. We figured OK this is good, Jay is a Yankees fan, he'll want to keep Cano in NY. Yankees will pay him, but not want to give him a really long deal because EVERYONE knows those deals are NEVER worth it. Yankees made a (fair) offer, but not ideal....Cano told them to off.....so now he can go himself. He's a turncoat, a traitor, a money-grubbing douchenugget. Probably the same way Cardinals fans felt about Pujols, Sox fans felt about Damon...etc. Yea I wanted Cano to go down as one of the all time greatest Yankee players. Loved him when he's here, and will hate him now that he's not. I don't wish him to get a disease or tear his ACLs....but if he never gets another ring and never gets an MVP or batting title I won't be upset at all. Because he left for the money.....like most people would, just not me. |
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Post by Nivro™ on Dec 13, 2013 17:57:54 GMT -5
im so glad the Yankee fanbase is working to change their image.... with the thousands of hate-tweets towards Cano to try and get a "laugh". i'll lay it out like this.... Cano had every right to do what he did. Seattle made him an offer than no other team was going to. In the end it really is all about money to 90% of athletes. We all wish inside that our favorite players actually valued the idea that the team they play for should be their team for life....but as it's been showed, NO ONE is untouchable. Maybe the Yankees lowballed him a bit, but that's part of the contract game. He didn't even want to play, then Seattle comes out with that 10 year thing and it was over. Dustin Pedroia (who is almost as good as Cano, and to be honest has more awards/achievements than Cano) took a "discount" to stay wth HIS team. In the end he will go down as an all time great Red Sox player, that kind of stuff is irreplaceable. I think what happened was that we (Yankees fans) saw Cano dump Boras and sign with Jay-Z.....who is NY's golden boy. We figured OK this is good, Jay is a Yankees fan, he'll want to keep Cano in NY. Yankees will pay him, but not want to give him a really long deal because EVERYONE knows those deals are NEVER worth it. Yankees made a (fair) offer, but not ideal....Cano told them to off.....so now he can go himself. He's a turncoat, a traitor, a money-grubbing douchenugget. Probably the same way Cardinals fans felt about Pujols, Sox fans felt about Damon...etc. Yea I wanted Cano to go down as one of the all time greatest Yankee players. Loved him when he's here, and will hate him now that he's not. I don't wish him to get a disease or tear his ACLs....but if he never gets another ring and never gets an MVP or batting title I won't be upset at all. Because he left for the money.....like most people would, just not me. I hope Robbie does well in his new home but Pete Rose said it best, Jay Z got Cano a big raise and an extra 30 day vacation. Its called October. |
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Post by T R W on Dec 13, 2013 18:00:32 GMT -5
im so glad the Yankee fanbase is working to change their image.... with the thousands of hate-tweets towards Cano to try and get a "laugh". i'll lay it out like this.... Cano had every right to do what he did. Seattle made him an offer than no other team was going to. In the end it really is all about money to 90% of athletes. We all wish inside that our favorite players actually valued the idea that the team they play for should be their team for life....but as it's been showed, NO ONE is untouchable. Maybe the Yankees lowballed him a bit, but that's part of the contract game. He didn't even want to play, then Seattle comes out with that 10 year thing and it was over. Dustin Pedroia (who is almost as good as Cano, and to be honest has more awards/achievements than Cano) took a "discount" to stay wth HIS team. In the end he will go down as an all time great Red Sox player, that kind of stuff is irreplaceable. I think what happened was that we (Yankees fans) saw Cano dump Boras and sign with Jay-Z.....who is NY's golden boy. We figured OK this is good, Jay is a Yankees fan, he'll want to keep Cano in NY. Yankees will pay him, but not want to give him a really long deal because EVERYONE knows those deals are NEVER worth it. Yankees made a (fair) offer, but not ideal....Cano told them to off.....so now he can go himself. He's a turncoat, a traitor, a money-grubbing douchenugget. Probably the same way Cardinals fans felt about Pujols, Sox fans felt about Damon...etc. Yea I wanted Cano to go down as one of the all time greatest Yankee players. Loved him when he's here, and will hate him now that he's not. I don't wish him to get a disease or tear his ACLs....but if he never gets another ring and never gets an MVP or batting title I won't be upset at all. Because he left for the money.....like most people would, just not me. Yeah any Yankees fan complaining about one of their players going somewhere else for more money is hysterical. They make a living doing that to other teams. |
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Post by Jimmy on Dec 13, 2013 18:47:51 GMT -5
Omar Infante to KC. You Yankees will take BP's contract off our hands and YOU WILL LIKE IT.
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Post by ICW on Dec 14, 2013 1:17:13 GMT -5
Omar Infante to KC. You Yankees will take BP's contract off our hands and YOU WILL LIKE IT. I highly doubt that. No way NYY is agreeing to take on Phillips' contract PLUS you have to consider he wanted to re-open his contract to get more $$$ in order to be traded. |
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Dec 14, 2013 10:50:22 GMT -5
I could see it being Phillips/prospects for Gardner, I mean there needs to be more than just Phillips going anywhere if you want to get value back.
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Post by Chip on Dec 14, 2013 12:13:30 GMT -5
can Brendan Ryan play Second? he is an excellent defender.
I'd rather have Kelly Johnson & Ryan split time at 2b than go anywhere near Phillips.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Dec 14, 2013 21:24:49 GMT -5
If you split Johnson/Ryan at 2B, Ryan who cant hit his weight, that means you need to go Johnson/Ryan when Jeter gets hurt
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