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Post by jammer311 on Apr 12, 2012 15:36:55 GMT -5
What do you guys think would have happened in 1996 if Hall and Nash stayed with the WWE??
Would have the NWO started up with Hogan and two other men?? Maybe Luger and Savage in the place of Hall and Nash??
Would Diesel ever be WWE Champion again??
Would Razor turn heel and challenge Shawn Michaels for the WWE Title??
Would Bulldog and Vader gotten the title shots they got if Diesel and Razor were still in the WWE in 96??
And lastly... would WCW start kicking the WWE's ass in the ratings war??
I would love to hear what people think what WCW and the WWE would have ended up like in 1996 if Hall and Nash never left.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 15:42:08 GMT -5
The way I see it, the NWO never would have happened, as it was an idea that started with The Outsiders coming in from the WWF and taking over the WCW.
Diesel, I'm willing to bet would have tasted gold within the year. The plan apparently was for him to defeat Undertaker at mania 12 and head into summerslam in a match with shawn, and with how over he was during 94-96, I'm going to bet he would have won the title again at some point.
I don't think wcw would have built up much steam, to me it was Nash and Hall that put wcw on the map and technically started the wars.
I think they would have ended up doing a clique faction to fued with the Harts (basically DX but just the 5 clique members).
As for Razor, if he'd stayed clean he probably would have tasted gold at some point, but I think his demons would have kept him down as they've done for so much of his career.
I also think Bulldog and Vader would have stayed in the main event scene, probably not as prominently though.
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Post by kazoosandstreamers on Apr 12, 2012 15:59:44 GMT -5
Them coming to WCW might just be one of the best things that ever happened in wrestling. I don't want to even think about what would of happened if they didn't.
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Raine
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Post by Raine on Apr 12, 2012 16:14:05 GMT -5
Even though Diesel's turn at Survivors 95, brought back the real Big Daddy Cool that we all wanted to see, his reign as WWF Champ was piss poor, Vince would really have to think twice about putting the belt back on him.
Scott Hall would have been a fresh face in the World title picture if he had stayed on in 1996, and probably would have to have turned heel at some point, but his drink demons would have to been controlled for him ever to get the top belt.
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Post by pxkgotosleep on Apr 12, 2012 16:42:15 GMT -5
Gotta wonder about Stone Cold, Stone Cold! In all of this.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 16:50:02 GMT -5
Even though Diesel's turn at Survivors 95, brought back the real Big Daddy Cool that we all wanted to see, his reign as WWF Champ was piss poor, Vince would really have to think twice about putting the belt back on him. Scott Hall would have been a fresh face in the World title picture if he had stayed on in 1996, and probably would have to have turned heel at some point, but his drink demons would have to been controlled for him ever to get the top belt. At one point, Diesel was AS over as Bret, they didn't give Diesel a 1 year title run for no reason. |
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jakksking1
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Post by jakksking1 on Apr 12, 2012 17:28:10 GMT -5
Its a really great "what if" question. I honestly think the entire landscape of wrestling would be different.
First, i'm pretty confident that the NWO wouldn't have existed, as others said, because it was an "invasion" angle with Hall/Nash playing the outsiders. Diesel probably wouldve had a couple more reigns as champion. I suspect Hall would have gotten a title run as well.
I think WCW would be out of business by 1997. I believe the statistic is that only 2 years that WCW existed, they turned a profit, and that was mostly (read: entirely) due to the NWO's rise. Problem is, without having to raise its game, the WWF probably doesn't transition into the Attitude Era. I have trouble seeing Austin getting his huge push. There probably isn't a screwjob either, because Bret wouldn't have anywhere else to go. I envision HBK, Razor, Harts and Diesel running the show until 2000, maybe with HHH getting a nice push. I think without that push with WCW, WWF wouldn't have reached the heights it did from 1997-01. The competition was the best thing that happened to wrestling, no doubt. It forced both to put out stellar products every time it came on TV.
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Post by Bartman on Apr 12, 2012 17:43:46 GMT -5
Even though Diesel's turn at Survivors 95, brought back the real Big Daddy Cool that we all wanted to see, his reign as WWF Champ was piss poor, Vince would really have to think twice about putting the belt back on him. Scott Hall would have been a fresh face in the World title picture if he had stayed on in 1996, and probably would have to have turned heel at some point, but his drink demons would have to been controlled for him ever to get the top belt. At one point, Diesel was AS over as Bret, they didn't give Diesel a 1 year title run for no reason. Diesel was never as over as Bret Hart. That's like saying Luger was as over as Bret during his push. Just like Luger, they tried to push Diesel as the #1 face to create a new 'Hogan', but it just didn't work. Don't get me wrong, that's not to say Diesel wasn't over. I mean, the fans turned Diesel face. The reaction he got at the Royal Rumble 1994 as a heel is still incredible. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 18:35:21 GMT -5
Nobody was over as much or more than Bret Hart between 93-95.
To be honest, Shawn had a lot of help from the office to get so over by the time Wrestlemania 12 rolled around in 1996.
That being said, I think there still would have been a boom in 1997 WWF but it certainly would not have been the same on WCW's side.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 20:54:39 GMT -5
there wouldnt have been an nWo.that idea was born out of the signing of Hall and Nash and Halls input was instrumental in its sucess.
if they had stayed?Im not sure.I think heel Diesel would have been a major player-but Im not so sure about Razor Ramon.
I also think that without the nWo,WCW would never have went in front.....thus never pushing Vince out of his comfort zone and allowing Austin,Rock etc the freedom required for their characters to become what we know and love.ditto for the DX faction
basically the defection of Hall and Nash changed EVERYTHING.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 2:42:12 GMT -5
At one point, Diesel was AS over as Bret, they didn't give Diesel a 1 year title run for no reason. Diesel was never as over as Bret Hart. That's like saying Luger was as over as Bret during his push. Just like Luger, they tried to push Diesel as the #1 face to create a new 'Hogan', but it just didn't work. Don't get me wrong, that's not to say Diesel wasn't over. I mean, the fans turned Diesel face. The reaction he got at the Royal Rumble 1994 as a heel is still incredible. He absolutely was, they had several matches and the crowd were chanting for Diesel. This is coming from a huge Hart fan, Diesel was at one point as over as Bret. |
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Raine
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Post by Raine on Apr 13, 2012 10:09:15 GMT -5
Even though Diesel's turn at Survivors 95, brought back the real Big Daddy Cool that we all wanted to see, his reign as WWF Champ was piss poor, Vince would really have to think twice about putting the belt back on him. Scott Hall would have been a fresh face in the World title picture if he had stayed on in 1996, and probably would have to have turned heel at some point, but his drink demons would have to been controlled for him ever to get the top belt. At one point, Diesel was AS over as Bret, they didn't give Diesel a 1 year title run for no reason. Granted Diesel was over, but Savage had the belt for a year, was a far better champion than Nash and didn;t get it back for 3 years, Warrior was super over, had the belt for 10 months but was never gonna be considered for another reign after he dropped it (didn't really help himself in 1991 but in 1992 he was never in consideration) |
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jakksking1
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Post by jakksking1 on Apr 13, 2012 12:14:51 GMT -5
At one point, Diesel was AS over as Bret, they didn't give Diesel a 1 year title run for no reason. Granted Diesel was over, but Savage had the belt for a year, was a far better champion than Nash and didn;t get it back for 3 years, Warrior was super over, had the belt for 10 months but was never gonna be considered for another reign after he dropped it (didn't really help himself in 1991 but in 1992 he was never in consideration) Hard to compare those situations, however. The roster was absolutely loaded in the late 80's and early 90s, there were tons of people to put the strap on. In 95/96, there were only a few legitimate contenders to the strap, some of which were put in bottom of the card feuds (Hart/Hakushi, Hart/Lawler). 95/96 was a terrible time for the WWF, given not only how over Diesel was, but the pull he had backstage, he would've probably gotten another run. |
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Post by done on Apr 13, 2012 13:57:11 GMT -5
Video:
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Post by Bartman on Apr 13, 2012 14:01:08 GMT -5
Diesel was never as over as Bret Hart. That's like saying Luger was as over as Bret during his push. Just like Luger, they tried to push Diesel as the #1 face to create a new 'Hogan', but it just didn't work. Don't get me wrong, that's not to say Diesel wasn't over. I mean, the fans turned Diesel face. The reaction he got at the Royal Rumble 1994 as a heel is still incredible. He absolutely was, they had several matches and the crowd were chanting for Diesel. This is coming from a huge Hart fan, Diesel was at one point as over as Bret. To my knowledge, the only matches they had together while Diesel was face was Rumble 95 and Survivor Series 95. Crowd was more pro-Hart at Rumble 95, but I can't remember their Survivor Series 1995 match too well. Even then, by the time SVS95 rolled around, Diesel as face had become incredibly stale, so I'm not sure if he would've been more over than Hart at that point. So maybe you can shed some light exactly when Diesel was as over as Hart because I agree with the earlier statement made with nobody being more over than Hart in 93-95. |
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jakksking1
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Post by jakksking1 on Apr 13, 2012 14:09:54 GMT -5
I love Bret, but he comes across as a bitch in some interviews. I don't know if i'd call a 6 month stretch as a champ a "placeholder", or his match with HBK at WM12 "handing the title over." |
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Post by mikey1974 on Apr 13, 2012 18:58:34 GMT -5
Nash,i think,would've still had a great run...he had just come off being the World Champion, he was booked into a feud with Undertaker ( and was booked to BEAT Taker at WM XII , effectively ending the streak early on,til Vince changed his mind after Nash announced he was leaving) , then right into a feud with the new World Champion HBK right after....i could see that going for a couple more months....then perhaps a "revenge" feud vs Bret Hart again,since they never really had any programs with each other,just some matches.....if he stayed heel, perhaps some feuds with the newly 'faced Sycho Sid,or Ahmed Johnson going into 1997? i could definitely see him in a feud with Austin in 1997 after the Hart Foundation stuff.....and i fully believe he'd get at least 1 more Title reign in there....
Scott Hall? sadly,i don't see much for him...he'd still probably stay at the top of the mid-card/lower main event level....in the short term,the feud with Goldust would continue,then maybe Vader, Bulldog,Owen, Triple H.....part of me thinks he'd turn heel sometime in 1997....but he was never gonna reach the levels he did in WCW,simply cause Vince knew he couldn't trust him at the Main Event level....wouldn't be out of the question to see 1 or 2 more IC Title reigns,maybe even the Tag Title,or perhaps the European Title in an attempt to elevate that Title...
i think the biggest question of all is,would there even have been a DX? basically, DX was formed because Shawn Michaels wasn't happy that all his buddies were down in WCW,and Vince wouldn't let him do anything with Hunter cause he was a face to HHH's heel ,but then Vince decided to turn HBK heel and let them work together,and DX was born from that....if the rest of the Cliq is still in the WWF, is there any reason to actually form DX then> or would we have see a DX with HBK, Triple H, Diesel,Razor Ramon,and the 1-2-3 Kid?
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Post by Mr. Orange on Apr 13, 2012 19:42:05 GMT -5
The entire landscape of wrestling would be different. Look at what happened:
HHH was planned as the 1996 KOTR Winner
Curtain Call w/ Nash & Hall leaving made Vince punish HHH.
Austin gets the nod and the rest is WWF history.
WCW gets the NWO and WCW is launched huge.
Without Hall/Nash leaving, Austin would never have gotten that launching point in 1996, maybe never. The biggest star in the business may never have gotten past the midcard. HBK would have had likely more matches with Nash, but the title run generally the same. Big giant/huge guy vs. HBK. Who knows what would have happened with Bret Hart. Razor was stale back in 1996 so I think he'd have eventually gone heel to feud with HBK.
WCW would never have had the NWO. Hogan was booed at the time, and I think he'd have eventually have gone heel. But without Hall/Nash the impact may not have been as huge. WCW may never have had that huge launching point.
Scott Hall and Kevin Nash literally changed the business by going to WCW.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2012 8:24:49 GMT -5
He absolutely was, they had several matches and the crowd were chanting for Diesel. This is coming from a huge Hart fan, Diesel was at one point as over as Bret. To my knowledge, the only matches they had together while Diesel was face was Rumble 95 and Survivor Series 95. Crowd was more pro-Hart at Rumble 95, but I can't remember their Survivor Series 1995 match too well. Even then, by the time SVS95 rolled around, Diesel as face had become incredibly stale, so I'm not sure if he would've been more over than Hart at that point. So maybe you can shed some light exactly when Diesel was as over as Hart because I agree with the earlier statement made with nobody being more over than Hart in 93-95. I know it's 96, but the crowd are pro-Diesel in this match. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 14, 2012 10:31:19 GMT -5
The nWo would have probably never happened, or if it did, would not have been as big.
Austin was still on his way to the top, so if HHH did win the KOTR 96, I still think Austin would have gotta to the top, as Bret still would have been a big supporter of his and Bret wanted his return feud to be w/ Austin, so he still would have gotten his huge break.
As for Razor, I doubt he would have won a world title. He just couldn't be trusted and Vince knew this. Scott was arguably more over than even Shawn in 94, yet never got a world title run because of his personal problems. He most likely would have remained in the IC title scene before eventually being released.
Diesel would have definatly gotten more title runs. People crapon him because of 1995 being crap, but Diesel was one of the few guys actually over. It wasn't his fault Vince put him into feuds w/ Sid and Mabel. His matches w/ HBK, Bulldog, Bret, and Taker were all entertaining. Had he stayed in the WWF, I'd say it would have been Diesel and not Sid taking the title off of Shawn at Survivor Series 1996.
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