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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Dec 21, 2014 13:26:02 GMT -5
Seth Rollins could be the next "randy orton" (guy who is always there. main event, multiple title runs, etc.) He's definitely going to be that guy. But they need a new money-drawing top guy more than they need another "always there, main event" guy. Rollins, ultimately, is the new Orton/HHH level guy. They need a new Cena/Austin/Hogan level guy.
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johnnyaustin21
Main Eventer
Joined on: Nov 21, 2011 14:16:20 GMT -5
Posts: 1,609
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Post by johnnyaustin21 on Dec 21, 2014 13:40:35 GMT -5
I think its been made pretty clear that Reigns and Rollins are the two main guys the WWE are getting behind to lead the new generation wtih Amrbose,Wyatt,Ziggler...ect following their lead.I am all in favor of Reigns mega push and title win over Brock,however I agree with the masses that he's not quite ready yet in terms of he's yet to have a great/classic singles match and is still finding his way in terms of cutting promos.I feel that the fans might turn on him do to those facts and seeing another super push.Plus theirs a ton of babyface guys or extremely talented in ring guys like Rollins,Ambrose,Cesaro,Bryan,Ziggler,Zayn...ect that if Reigns face off against I suspect the fans would get behind more then Reigns.
So the best route to go is to have Reigns win the title and then turn heel right afterwards and aline himself with someone like Triple H,Flair or even Heymen as a mouth peace and manger.You have him as a badass heel like a Lesnar or how Bobby Lashley has been book in TNA with one of those men in his corner hyping him up and cutting promos and also from time to time helping him win matches dirty over the likes of Ziggler,Ambrose,Zayn...ect and I think he'll get mega over and also working with those babyfaces would really help him in his in ring work.A lot better option then leaving him face and on his own going up against what on the heel side of things right now in Rollins,Wyatt,Harper,Kane,Show,Henry ?
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Post by greenjack1992 on Dec 21, 2014 15:23:28 GMT -5
I blame ECW One Night Stand 2006 for that. Cena was doing fine until RVD and Paul E started saying "wrestling fans are sick of John Cena and his brand of wrestling" over and over. Add to that the buzz over ECW for fans old and new and finally throw into the mix the Hammerstein Ballroom reaction to him setting a new tone and suddenly you have accidentally besmirched your top guy forever by making all the cool faces tell wrestling fans that they were sick of him. It's just the power of suggestion. I'm as sick of Cena as the next guy, but I didn't realise it until Paul Heyman and RVD told me so in 2006. He was already being boo'd by WrestleMania 22 against Triple H My mistake. I've never seen that PPV even now so I had no idea. What was happening at that time to make it so? It had only been a year since his first title win at WM 21. I don't recall his first year at the top being that bad (except when he lowered that ghastly title from the ceiling on SmackDown!, I adored the Undisputed design and was a bit sick in my mouth when I saw what was replacing it).
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Post by Chip on Dec 21, 2014 15:39:27 GMT -5
Seth Rollins could be the next "randy orton" (guy who is always there. main event, multiple title runs, etc.) He's definitely going to be that guy. But they need a new money-drawing top guy more than they need another "always there, main event" guy. Rollins, ultimately, is the new Orton/HHH level guy. They need a new Cena/Austin/Hogan level guy. Cena aint going anywhere soon. So at this point I'm fine with Orton/HHH level guys. You never know when one of them might be able to carry things. You cant FORCE the next Austin or Cena or Hogan. It just needs to happen. The backlash against Reigns is that almost everyone KNOWS what they are doing because it's painfully obvious. The worst thing in this world nowadays is telling people what they should like. Jumping on a trend and slamming it into the ground by going "look see! it's ______! we're cool!" It immediately turns people off It's funny I can remember when Cena was starting his rise to the top. The fans loved his corny rapper act, he was good in the ring, good outside the ring and he obviously did the right things backstage. But they didn't just skyrocket him to the main event and go "here's this guy YOU WILL LIKE HIM" they built a story around him, he won the lower card title and eventually people believed he could play with the big boys The whole superman thing didn't really start until a few years ago I'd say when they just started having Cena win ALL the time, never ever looking like he was vulnerable, that whole never give up thing. Where as NOW they feel like what they need to do is REPLICATE exactly what Cena does and that will make everybody happy. Reigns has won the Tag Titles once...and defended them like 3 times. He's beaten up a crap ton of people and is presented as this unstoppable force. But we're supposed to believe he's this underdog and there's no way he could win the Rumble (even though he got to eliminate 14 people last year) so that when he does it creates this false sense of overachievement. And to be honest, Reigns can't hold the stub of a candle to John Cena in the ring. He's really not all that great...and most fans realize that. Just doing big signature power moves isn't enough to "carry the company"
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 21, 2014 15:51:21 GMT -5
He's definitely going to be that guy. But they need a new money-drawing top guy more than they need another "always there, main event" guy. Rollins, ultimately, is the new Orton/HHH level guy. They need a new Cena/Austin/Hogan level guy. Cena aint going anywhere soon. So at this point I'm fine with Orton/HHH level guys. You never know when one of them might be able to carry things. You cant FORCE the next Austin or Cena or Hogan. It just needs to happen. The backlash against Reigns is that almost everyone KNOWS what they are doing because it's painfully obvious. The worst thing in this world nowadays is telling people what they should like. Jumping on a trend and slamming it into the ground by going "look see! it's ______! we're cool!" It immediately turns people off It's funny I can remember when Cena was starting his rise to the top. The fans loved his corny rapper act, he was good in the ring, good outside the ring and he obviously did the right things backstage. But they didn't just skyrocket him to the main event and go "here's this guy YOU WILL LIKE HIM" they built a story around him, he won the lower card title and eventually people believed he could play with the big boys The whole superman thing didn't really start until a few years ago I'd say when they just started having Cena win ALL the time, never ever looking like he was vulnerable, that whole never give up thing. Where as NOW they feel like what they need to do is REPLICATE exactly what Cena does and that will make everybody happy. Reigns has won the Tag Titles once...and defended them like 3 times. He's beaten up a crap ton of people and is presented as this unstoppable force. But we're supposed to believe he's this underdog and there's no way he could win the Rumble (even though he got to eliminate 14 people last year) so that when he does it creates this false sense of overachievement. And to be honest, Reigns can't hold the stub of a candle to John Cena in the ring. He's really not all that great...and most fans realize that. Just doing big signature power moves isn't enough to "carry the company" Well, this makes a ton of sense.
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Infinite
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 27, 2009 13:49:36 GMT -5
Posts: 2,608
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Post by Infinite on Dec 21, 2014 16:23:02 GMT -5
He was already being boo'd by WrestleMania 22 against Triple H My mistake. I've never seen that PPV even now so I had no idea. What was happening at that time to make it so? It had only been a year since his first title win at WM 21. I don't recall his first year at the top being that bad (except when he lowered that ghastly title from the ceiling on SmackDown!, I adored the Undisputed design and was a bit sick in my mouth when I saw what was replacing it). In 05 Cena went over a guys people deemed to be decisively more talented than him. Angle, Jericho, Christian etc. Also pretty sure Triple H shredded him for only having 5 moves in the buildup to their match.
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Deleted
Joined on: Apr 27, 2024 9:52:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 16:38:22 GMT -5
He's definitely going to be that guy. But they need a new money-drawing top guy more than they need another "always there, main event" guy. Rollins, ultimately, is the new Orton/HHH level guy. They need a new Cena/Austin/Hogan level guy. Cena aint going anywhere soon. So at this point I'm fine with Orton/HHH level guys. You never know when one of them might be able to carry things. You cant FORCE the next Austin or Cena or Hogan. It just needs to happen. The backlash against Reigns is that almost everyone KNOWS what they are doing because it's painfully obvious. The worst thing in this world nowadays is telling people what they should like. Jumping on a trend and slamming it into the ground by going "look see! it's ______! we're cool!" It immediately turns people off It's funny I can remember when Cena was starting his rise to the top. The fans loved his corny rapper act, he was good in the ring, good outside the ring and he obviously did the right things backstage. But they didn't just skyrocket him to the main event and go "here's this guy YOU WILL LIKE HIM" they built a story around him, he won the lower card title and eventually people believed he could play with the big boys The whole superman thing didn't really start until a few years ago I'd say when they just started having Cena win ALL the time, never ever looking like he was vulnerable, that whole never give up thing. Where as NOW they feel like what they need to do is REPLICATE exactly what Cena does and that will make everybody happy. Reigns has won the Tag Titles once...and defended them like 3 times. He's beaten up a crap ton of people and is presented as this unstoppable force. But we're supposed to believe he's this underdog and there's no way he could win the Rumble (even though he got to eliminate 14 people last year) so that when he does it creates this false sense of overachievement. And to be honest, Reigns can't hold the stub of a candle to John Cena in the ring. He's really not all that great...and most fans realize that. Just doing big signature power moves isn't enough to "carry the company" Give this bloke a.....cookie? Beer? Whatever, he's cracked it.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Dec 21, 2014 16:45:00 GMT -5
Cena aint going anywhere soon. So at this point I'm fine with Orton/HHH level guys. Nobody knows how long Cena's got left full-time... And they run two tours most of the time, so they need as good a headliner as possible on the other roster. The more Cena level guys they have, the less they need to rely on Cena. One Cena was fine when the network wasn't anal-bleeding money, but they can't rely on "Cena and a bunch of other guys" as much as they could before they started throwing millions into the new bottomless pit. They need to go all the way with someone new. They're not really worried about making everybody happy -- they know that there are certain fans who are always going to complain about any top babyface who isn't in the darling club. And those fans being anti-Cena hasn't stopped him being a huge moneymaker. They'd happily take Reigns drawing big and being hated by people online who have been against him since the start because he has the "WWE look" and didn't work the indies and is a Vince creation. Whether he does draw or not is a gamble, but at least they're trying. Reigns' wrestling is at least as good now as Cena's was in 2004, but they've still got three or four months to have him working with veterans every night on the road.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 21, 2014 16:49:19 GMT -5
Cena aint going anywhere soon. So at this point I'm fine with Orton/HHH level guys. Nobody knows how long Cena's got left full-time... And they run two tours most of the time, so they need as good a headliner as possible on the other roster. The more Cena level guys they have, the less they need to rely on Cena. One Cena was fine when the network wasn't anal-bleeding money, but they can't rely on "Cena and a bunch of other guys" as much as they could before they started throwing millions into the new bottomless pit. They're not really worried about making everybody happy -- they know that there are certain fans who are always going to complain about any top babyface who isn't in the darling club. And those fans being anti-Cena hasn't stopped him being a huge moneymaker. They'd happily take Reigns drawing big and being hated by people online who have been against him since the start because he has the "WWE look" and didn't work the indies and is a Vince creation. Whether he does draw or not is a gamble, but at least they're trying. Reigns' wrestling is at least as good now as Cena's was in 2004, but they've still got three or four months to have him working with veterans every night on the road. It's like you get off on saying "indy darling" and terms like that.
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Post by Chip on Dec 21, 2014 16:55:50 GMT -5
just because a wrestler is/was an "indy darling" doesn't mean he wouldnt be able to sell out arena's for the WWE....
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 21, 2014 17:00:47 GMT -5
just because a wrestler is/was an "indy darling" doesn't mean he wouldnt be able to sell out arena's for the WWE.... I mean, he's admitted positive things for Daniel Bryan, so it's not that he's against ALL indy guys. And I totally get that not every guy who killed it on the indies is a major player, but still. The need to go out in every post and say "indy darling", "internet will complain" and things like that is killer. It's like a mark against everything that normal marks would mark for.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Dec 21, 2014 17:02:44 GMT -5
He was already being boo'd by WrestleMania 22 against Triple H My mistake. I've never seen that PPV even now so I had no idea. What was happening at that time to make it so? It had only been a year since his first title win at WM 21. I don't recall his first year at the top being that bad (except when he lowered that ghastly title from the ceiling on SmackDown!, I adored the Undisputed design and was a bit sick in my mouth when I saw what was replacing it). The lame rapper gimmick, Christian pretty much annihilated it in a promo about two weeks after Cena won the title and that set the rot in for older fans. Then throw in Cena beating a bunch of darlings in a row (Christian, Jericho, Angle). Plus, Cena was the first new big babyface since everyone got broadband and started hating wrestling... For a few years before that, WWE had never really strapped the rocket to any babyfaces and the complaint online was all about Triple H burying the faces. Lo and behold, they bring two new babyfaces up to the top and the same people hated that too. We were in full "I'M NOT GONNA LIKE WHO YOU TELL ME TO LIKE, DAD! I'M GOING TO MY ROOM!" mode at the time.
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Post by Planktung on Dec 21, 2014 17:03:21 GMT -5
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Dec 21, 2014 17:04:23 GMT -5
Nobody knows how long Cena's got left full-time... And they run two tours most of the time, so they need as good a headliner as possible on the other roster. The more Cena level guys they have, the less they need to rely on Cena. One Cena was fine when the network wasn't anal-bleeding money, but they can't rely on "Cena and a bunch of other guys" as much as they could before they started throwing millions into the new bottomless pit. They're not really worried about making everybody happy -- they know that there are certain fans who are always going to complain about any top babyface who isn't in the darling club. And those fans being anti-Cena hasn't stopped him being a huge moneymaker. They'd happily take Reigns drawing big and being hated by people online who have been against him since the start because he has the "WWE look" and didn't work the indies and is a Vince creation. Whether he does draw or not is a gamble, but at least they're trying. Reigns' wrestling is at least as good now as Cena's was in 2004, but they've still got three or four months to have him working with veterans every night on the road. It's like you get off on saying "indy darling" and terms like that. I never use the term "indy darling" -- for starters, it's "indie" and not all the darlings come from the indies. 90% do, but occasionally someone else sneaks into darling territory purely within the WWE system. Usually from being "buried" though.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 21, 2014 17:06:20 GMT -5
It's like you get off on saying "indy darling" and terms like that. I never use the term "indy darling" -- for starters, it's "indie" and not all the darlings come from the indies. 90% do, but occasionally someone else sneaks into darling territory purely within the WWE system. Usually from being "buried" though. My mistake. "Indie." I was actually going to change that anyway, since I saw your post about Christian, Jericho and Angle, where you called them "darlings" and not "indie darlings."
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Dec 21, 2014 17:07:21 GMT -5
just because a wrestler is/was an "indy darling" doesn't mean he wouldnt be able to sell out arena's for the WWE.... Nor does it mean he would, which is the mistake that a lot of folks make.
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Deleted
Joined on: Apr 27, 2024 9:52:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 17:10:33 GMT -5
He's definitely going to be that guy. But they need a new money-drawing top guy more than they need another "always there, main event" guy. Rollins, ultimately, is the new Orton/HHH level guy. They need a new Cena/Austin/Hogan level guy. Cena aint going anywhere soon. So at this point I'm fine with Orton/HHH level guys. You never know when one of them might be able to carry things. You cant FORCE the next Austin or Cena or Hogan. It just needs to happen. The backlash against Reigns is that almost everyone KNOWS what they are doing because it's painfully obvious. The worst thing in this world nowadays is telling people what they should like. Jumping on a trend and slamming it into the ground by going "look see! it's ______! we're cool!" It immediately turns people off It's funny I can remember when Cena was starting his rise to the top. The fans loved his corny rapper act, he was good in the ring, good outside the ring and he obviously did the right things backstage. But they didn't just skyrocket him to the main event and go "here's this guy YOU WILL LIKE HIM" they built a story around him, he won the lower card title and eventually people believed he could play with the big boys The whole superman thing didn't really start until a few years ago I'd say when they just started having Cena win ALL the time, never ever looking like he was vulnerable, that whole never give up thing. Where as NOW they feel like what they need to do is REPLICATE exactly what Cena does and that will make everybody happy. Reigns has won the Tag Titles once...and defended them like 3 times. He's beaten up a crap ton of people and is presented as this unstoppable force. But we're supposed to believe he's this underdog and there's no way he could win the Rumble (even though he got to eliminate 14 people last year) so that when he does it creates this false sense of overachievement. And to be honest, Reigns can't hold the stub of a candle to John Cena in the ring. He's really not all that great...and most fans realize that. Just doing big signature power moves isn't enough to "carry the company" And who is exactly are the "Most Fans"? You mean the "Most Fans" on the WFigs fourm? Roman reigns worked just as hard as dean and seth with a little more time he could be something great and the crowd loves him and hes completely over.If people can believe Seth Rollins would be a top main eventer than why can't roman reigns? He's Not THAT BAD of a wrestler.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 21, 2014 17:15:31 GMT -5
Cena aint going anywhere soon. So at this point I'm fine with Orton/HHH level guys. You never know when one of them might be able to carry things. You cant FORCE the next Austin or Cena or Hogan. It just needs to happen. The backlash against Reigns is that almost everyone KNOWS what they are doing because it's painfully obvious. The worst thing in this world nowadays is telling people what they should like. Jumping on a trend and slamming it into the ground by going "look see! it's ______! we're cool!" It immediately turns people off It's funny I can remember when Cena was starting his rise to the top. The fans loved his corny rapper act, he was good in the ring, good outside the ring and he obviously did the right things backstage. But they didn't just skyrocket him to the main event and go "here's this guy YOU WILL LIKE HIM" they built a story around him, he won the lower card title and eventually people believed he could play with the big boys The whole superman thing didn't really start until a few years ago I'd say when they just started having Cena win ALL the time, never ever looking like he was vulnerable, that whole never give up thing. Where as NOW they feel like what they need to do is REPLICATE exactly what Cena does and that will make everybody happy. Reigns has won the Tag Titles once...and defended them like 3 times. He's beaten up a crap ton of people and is presented as this unstoppable force. But we're supposed to believe he's this underdog and there's no way he could win the Rumble (even though he got to eliminate 14 people last year) so that when he does it creates this false sense of overachievement. And to be honest, Reigns can't hold the stub of a candle to John Cena in the ring. He's really not all that great...and most fans realize that. Just doing big signature power moves isn't enough to "carry the company" And who is exactly are the "Most Fans"? You mean the "Most Fans" on the WFigs fourm? Roman reigns worked just as hard as dean and seth with a little more time he could be something great and the crowd loves him and hes completely over.If people can believe Seth Rollins would be a top main eventer than why can't roman reigns? He's Not THAT BAD of a wrestler. Myself and a lot of others don't think Roman Reigns can't be a main eventer. A lot of us are saying that he needs more time. You're right, he's worked hard. You're a bit off on him being completely over since he couldn't even get a good pop at Battleground against three guys that don't always get positive pops and at SummerSlam when Orton was more popular. He can be a main event player and I'm okay with him being a big player. I don't think he has the tools to be THE NUMBER ONE guy, but he can develop them with more time. He has to be forced into the spotlight way before he's ready and it will lead to backlash. He hasn't learned how to work a really solid, long singles match and was far behind his Shield teammates even if he's NOT THAT BAD.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Dec 21, 2014 17:20:34 GMT -5
I never use the term "indy darling" -- for starters, it's "indie" and not all the darlings come from the indies. 90% do, but occasionally someone else sneaks into darling territory purely within the WWE system. Usually from being "buried" though. My mistake. "Indie." I was actually going to change that anyway, since I saw your post about Christian, Jericho and Angle, where you called them "darlings" and not "indie darlings." Yup, all three of those guys were from before the "WWE and indies" era, and Angle especially was just a WWE guy at the time. 2002-2003 was when the anti-WWE sentiment set in. Workrate darling would probably be a more accurate term for that time/guys who were already there, but internet darling (or just darling by itself) covers the entire spectrum anyway. And regarding your earlier post, I'm all for the darlings who are good. Rollins, Ambrose, Bryan are awesome. I just don't go along with the silly notions that very midcard-ability guys like Cesaro should be main-eventing WrestleMania, or that I have to hate all WWE's choices for top guys. I used to buy into all that stuff from like 2002 until about 2006/2007.
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Post by Chip on Dec 21, 2014 17:29:29 GMT -5
i think the thing people aren't getting here is that most of us who are annoyed with SuperReigns are only so because Roman Reigns absolutely is NOT a guy who could CARRY THE COMPANY the way Hogan, Austin & Cena have.
Yet this is what we are to believe by the WWE.
THAT is the problem.
Just having a guy win matches all the time doesn't mean you can be the #1 top drawing babyface mega star hero amazing most important 10x champion hall of famer ever
It seems like everybody is eitehr "Reigns is the best, he can carry the company he's not an independent wrestler spot monkey zero personality" or "Reigns sucks he should be fired"
The FACT is that it should be somewhere in the middle. If they were gonna make Reigns into the same kind of guy that Rollins & Ambrose could be, fine. That's a HHH/Orton/Batista/Sheamus....where they are legit main event talent in major feuds for years to come.
Not....oh we're gonna make Reigns the WWE champion and put the WWE on his back while he shoots to the moon and becomes the next Hulk Hogan. Quite frankly that is a stupid idea and THAT is what I as an intelligent lifelong wrestling FAN am against.
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