Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2013 17:32:06 GMT -5
Backlund winning in 1994 always bothered me, even as a kid I was like uhhh WTF. I know they didnt want Bret to drop it to Diesel but why not have Owen carry it for awhile then drop it to Diesel.
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Post by done on Jun 2, 2013 17:41:41 GMT -5
Throwaway. Same thing could of been said for guys like Billy Gunn's IC reign, Truth's US reign etc. Good point, never mind then Lol, cause even though guys like Billy Gun had a short IC reign, they were over as hell back then.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 2, 2013 17:45:38 GMT -5
Not a single mention of Khali? Don't see how Miz wasn't deserving, the guy worked his ass off, just because he never came from indies like ROH & you don't like him, doesn't mean he didn't deserve it. The guy still sucks in the ring after all these years and comes off more corny than anything. He has no credibility, even after holding the WWE Title, and deserves every bit of the depush hes received over the past 2 years. The fact the WWE is associating Ric Flair w/ him is a travesty.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 2, 2013 18:00:05 GMT -5
1) I highly doubt Jarrett was guaranteed any title reigns in his contract. Unless someone had Hogan's "creative control" or a contract like Big Show received in '99, nobody was guaranteed title reigns.
2) I still don't understand the Jarrett hate. It has died down over the past few years but its still there. The guy was always regarded by other wrestlers as a good worker (Bret Hart even said this in his book) and made his characters work. Hell, even Nash has said that Jarrett was like an "unofficial" member of the KLIQ. He was deserving of every IC Title reign he had, and his WCW Title reigns are defendable as well (WCW was already a sinking ship before he got there and Jarrett was the one constant main event heel that could be counted on every damn week). In TNA, while some of his reigns were crap, they had a purpose as Jarrett was TNA's biggest name at the time before Sting and Angle got there and TNA was trying to build an audience.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2013 2:38:57 GMT -5
1) I highly doubt Jarrett was guaranteed any title reigns in his contract. Unless someone had Hogan's "creative control" or a contract like Big Show received in '99, nobody was guaranteed title reigns. 2) I still don't understand the Jarrett hate. It has died down over the past few years but its still there. The guy was always regarded by other wrestlers as a good worker (Bret Hart even said this in his book) and made his characters work. Hell, even Nash has said that Jarrett was like an "unofficial" member of the KLIQ. He was deserving of every IC Title reign he had, and his WCW Title reigns are defendable as well (WCW was already a sinking ship before he got there and Jarrett was the one constant main event heel that could be counted on every damn week). In TNA, while some of his reigns were crap, they had a purpose as Jarrett was TNA's biggest name at the time before Sting and Angle got there and TNA was trying to build an audience. I don't understand the Jarrett hate either.
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Daniel F'n Bryan
Main Eventer
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Post by Daniel F'n Bryan on Jun 3, 2013 4:47:02 GMT -5
Jarrett hate pisses me off alot actually. He is SO underrated it's crazy. I keep him up there with guys like Piper, Roberts, Hennig, etc. where he's really good but never was "given the ball" IMO.
But back on topic this one might surprise alot of people but i thought Yoko was very undeserving of the title the first time he won it. It was really the first time the WWE hotshoted someone to the main event like that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2013 5:26:16 GMT -5
Jarrett hate pisses me off alot actually. He is SO underrated it's crazy. I keep him up there with guys like Piper, Roberts, Hennig, etc. where he's really good but never was "given the ball" IMO. But back on topic this one might surprise alot of people but i thought Yoko was very undeserving of the title the first time he won it. It was really the first time the WWE hotshoted someone to the main event like that. He was one of three guys that Austin had a chance to feud with. He nixed Jarrett and Billy and went with Triple H. It's a shame, because Jarrett and Billy both could have used the rub of an Austin feud way more than Triple H at the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2013 5:56:17 GMT -5
Austin didnt nix Billy Gunn.he nixed JJ because he said it wouldn't have been credible and he would have been 1 million% correct.he also would have been correct to nix Billy Gunn.....he wasn't up to it IMO.and while Im here....he didnt nix HHH going over at Summerslam 99 either.Ventura & Vince came to an agreement about a face going over because of Jesses position.Austin HAD to drop the strap....he was f*cked.
fact of the matter is Vince had 3 guys to pick from after WM15 to relive Austin @ Summerslam and become his next big heel.he realised Rock would have to get turned face soon so started to think about the next new heel guy.
HHH was WAY more over in terms of heeldom than either Gunn or JJ had ANY hopes of being.he was arguably the 2nd/3rd most popular guy in the company & turned on the second most popular act in the company.....his heat was nuclear.The crowd wanted to kill him at Fully Loaded 99 when he beat the Rock for the shot.
the other two were WAY behind him.Vince had his mind made up by May.Russo threw a tantrum because he wanted it to be JJ.......then he threw another because Billy Gunn was getting the KOTR & Rock feud.
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Daniel F'n Bryan
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 24, 2011 0:33:48 GMT -5
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Post by Daniel F'n Bryan on Jun 3, 2013 5:59:40 GMT -5
Jarrett hate pisses me off alot actually. He is SO underrated it's crazy. I keep him up there with guys like Piper, Roberts, Hennig, etc. where he's really good but never was "given the ball" IMO. But back on topic this one might surprise alot of people but i thought Yoko was very undeserving of the title the first time he won it. It was really the first time the WWE hotshoted someone to the main event like that. He was one of three guys that Austin had a chance to feud with. He nixed Jarrett and Billy and went with Triple H. It's a shame, because Jarrett and Billy both could have used the rub of an Austin feud way more than Triple H at the time. Jarrett could have worked but Billy would have seemed out of place in the main event at that time. I always saw Billy alot like I saw Shamrock. A guy that is 100 percent capable of being a main eventer but they were around during a time where there was zero shortage of main event talent in Triple H, Stone Cold, Rock, Foley, Show, Taker and Kane.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2013 6:01:23 GMT -5
He was one of three guys that Austin had a chance to feud with. He nixed Jarrett and Billy and went with Triple H. It's a shame, because Jarrett and Billy both could have used the rub of an Austin feud way more than Triple H at the time. Jarrett could have worked but Billy would have seemed out of place in the main event at that time. I always saw Billy alot like I saw Shamrock. A guy that is 100 percent capable of being a main eventer but they were around during a time where there was zero shortage of main event talent in Triple H, Stone Cold, Rock, Foley, Show, Taker and Kane. I get where you're coming from as there were so many main eventers at the time. But Billy (And the Outlaws) were SO over at the time, I think he could have easily been in the main event scene.
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Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Jun 3, 2013 10:37:15 GMT -5
2) I still don't understand the Jarrett hate. It has died down over the past few years but its still there. The guy was always regarded by other wrestlers as a good worker (Bret Hart even said this in his book) and made his characters work. Hell, even Nash has said that Jarrett was like an "unofficial" member of the KLIQ. He was deserving of every IC Title reign he had, and his WCW Title reigns are defendable as well (WCW was already a sinking ship before he got there and Jarrett was the one constant main event heel that could be counted on every damn week). In TNA, while some of his reigns were crap, they had a purpose as Jarrett was TNA's biggest name at the time before Sting and Angle got there and TNA was trying to build an audience. I don't get the Jeff Jarrett hate at all either. Jarrett is one of the best heels in wrestling history. His heel work connected with the audience extremely well. His "Don't Piss Me Off" persona added another layer and dimension to his amazing heel work. It is not far to say the Jarrett couldn't draw a dime. He was never positioned as a top draw in the WWF, WCW was a sinking ship during his rise in WCW, and TNA was an upstart promotion that was finding its niche and status as a wrestling organization. Given the WWF's roster in 1999, the depth and thickness of the talent pool is something to appreciate. With the limited amount of time those guys had to work with, they did an excellent job at best. I disagree with Bob Backlund's 1994 WWF Championship reign as least deserving. McMahon probably wanted to say his thanks to Backlund for carrying the WWF from 1978-1983 and use him as a transitional champion. McMahon wanted the title off of Bret Hart but on to Diesel without hurting Bret's status. If you want to talk about least deserving, look no further than Diesel. To sum it up, Diesel couldn't draw for **** during his 358-day reign as the WWF Champion. I read a tidbit that after In Your House 4 was over, McMahon grabbed Diesel by the throat and told him that next month, you're losing the ******* title. Not sure if that is true or not. I believe Sgt. Slaughter mentioned this in a interview that Slaughter/Hogan at WrestleMania VII wasn't going to be for the championship. Instead, they wanted Savage/Warrior in a title vs. career match at WrestleMania VII. I can't vouch for the authenticity of this information. It is safe to say the both Men on a Mission and the Natural Disasters were not deserving as tag champions. By 1992, the tag division in the WWF was on the decline. Compared to 1988, the tag division lost so much steam by the time MoM and the Natural Disasters held the tag titles. There are more on my list but I'm ending it here for now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2013 10:41:46 GMT -5
yes indeed I forgot about Bob Backlunds 2nd reign.
Cordless idea for an Owen reign instead of Backlund here was aces.
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Captain McKay
Main Eventer
WF 15+ Year Member But all out of badges so this is not one
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Post by Captain McKay on Jun 3, 2013 12:24:48 GMT -5
With Jarrett and Billy Gunn, I can't ever knock their ability. What I will say is neither of their characters (or should I say "any") have ever connected with me. Might have been because, as mentioned above, there were already so many established main event players at the time. The Jarrett hatred though, I don't understand that. I think he might have been great if he were better used. Getting back to Austin, didn't Jarrett once tell him he wouldn't amount to anything? And that's why Austin didn't want to work with him later on after his popularity skyrocketed? I remember hearing something about this, but I'm not sure. I get where you're coming from as there were so many main eventers at the time. But Billy (And the Outlaws) were SO over at the time, I think he could have easily been in the main event scene. I think that's the important footnote. Billy needed Road Dogg and Road Dogg needed Billy, IMO. Neither of them fared well separately, and when they tried that, they both wound up getting shoved into other teams pretty quickly (with Chuck Palumbo and K-Kwik as their partners, if I recall). It's a shame, too, with how the tag team division would blow up. Imagine seeing the Outlaws against E&C or the Hardyz a few more times, with a solid feud. Once DX was disbanded, I could see the NAO returning to their '98 behavior of backstage attacks and "ratings" grabs. Then the potential matches in the early 2000s they could have had against Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas, or guys like those...something to think about. I think people occasionally tend to look down at Tag Team wrestlers, like they're only credible if they break out and succeed like Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, etc. There's nothing wrong with being half of a great team, and I think Billy Gunn did that just fine.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2013 12:52:47 GMT -5
JJ and his father Jerry did have heat with Austin going way back to WCCW.
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Duke Silver
Superstar
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Post by Duke Silver on Jun 3, 2013 13:09:02 GMT -5
JJ and his father Jerry did have heat with Austin going way back to WCCW. Joker's right. If I remember correctly Austin was looking at his pay which Austin thought was very small and Jeff came up to him and said something along the lines of, "it ain't going to get any bigger by staring at it."
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Post by IRS on Jun 3, 2013 13:16:31 GMT -5
I'd say Hogan's '02 WWE title reign. Another would be Vinny Mac as ECW champion, that was wrong on so many levels.
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rudyhoneybee
Jobber
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Post by rudyhoneybee on Jun 3, 2013 13:18:26 GMT -5
I feel like I am the only one who likes the miz haha his reign began with a shocking cash in on Randy Orton and he went on to have a decent feud with Jerry Lawler. I'll agree that he shouldn't have main evented WM and he probably should have lost it to Cena or someone else earlier but I still liked him and his reign. I really liked it because he went from the annoying host who couldn't remember his lines and being made fun of by DX to one of the guys. He was a huge wrestling fan, became a workhouse having relatively decent matches (once again not disputing he was not a 5 star match kind of guy, and always carried himself well in public appearances and on talk shows. I guess to me it kind of felt like when Edge cashed in the first time, not as awesome but a boyhood dream coming true and I just love those scenarios. Sure there were ups and downs to his reign but to say he was the most underserving champion seems a bit harsh and unfair to me. The Great Khali on the other hand...
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 3, 2013 16:58:23 GMT -5
I agree 100% with the WWF's decisions to push HHH over Jarrett and Gunn in '99, but for some to say Jarrett was a crappy midcarder is simply not true. By the fall of '99, Jarrett was in the thick of his "Don't Piss Me Off" gimmick and had been positioned as the #2 heel behind HHH in the company. People seem to forget that in the fall of '99, Undertaker was out with a major injury, Jericho had just debuted and was struggling to find a footing w/in the company, Big Show was turned face, and Angle and The Radicalz had not debuted yet. Jarrett was hot at the time and on the verge of jumping to the main event.
I still firmly believe that had Jarrett remained w/ the WWF, he would have received a main event push while Austin was out with his neck injury. Hell, there is a good chance he would have been apart of the Fatal Four Way at WM16 had he stuck around. Big Show was booked like crap from the time he had debuted and Jarrett was garnering much more heel heat in a midcard feud w/ Chyna than Big Show was while working w/ The Rock a few months later.
As for Gunn, I've always saw him as a midcarder. His in ring stuff was good, but he lack the charisma and "IT" factor IMO to be a serious main eventer.
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Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Jun 3, 2013 18:26:47 GMT -5
As for Gunn, I've always saw him as a midcarder. His in ring stuff was good, but he lack the charisma and "IT" factor IMO to be a serious main eventer. This is the best assessment I've read someone make about Billy Gunn. I too, never saw him as a main eventer. The only reason why he became over with the crowd was because of his alliance with the Road Dogg. The New Age Outlaws were a makeshift tag team who were floundering in the singles division, and once paired, they became one of the greatest tag teams in all of wrestling. Aside from that, I never saw Billy Gunn as a legit main eventer.
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Post by Joe/Smurf on Jun 3, 2013 18:49:58 GMT -5
Sheamus and Del Rio at the time of their WWE title reigns.
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