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Post by JokerFC on Aug 21, 2024 16:56:07 GMT -5
.....and how Vince absolutely f*cked them up.
I was just thinking about my 3 fave debuts today and godammit all 3 of them fell flat on their faces after SCORCHING hot intros.
Taz @ RR00. Great ovation in MSG and they ate up everything he did. Talk about a perfect start.
BUT
Angle complained he was careless & dangerous, HHH and others bemoaned his size, He had niggling injuries and lastly he was smothered by the arrival of the Radicalz. Sigh.
Scott Steiner @ SSeries 02. Again came out to a monster reception, and looked great pounding on Hardy and Nowinski. was protected well for a while...
BUT
His body was a wreck and his booking by Vince, Steph and whoever else had influence absolutely destroyed him. Instead of hiding the weaknesses they were FULLY aware he had? they shone a f*cking lighthouse on them. Sigh.
Sting @ SSeries 2014. The 1st time I had marked in ages...It was brilliant to be fair and exactly the kind of debut he should have had. Hot angle, brilliant intro, crowd going crazy...
BUT
Long absences from TV and not winning the feud vs HHH was just rotten stuff. He then shakes HHHs hand after he has cheated him to win. Good God.
what about you folks? what are you favorite debuts and did Vince take a dump on them like he did mine? Discuss.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Aug 21, 2024 17:32:57 GMT -5
Off the top of my head...
"Diamond" Dallas Page!
The WCW Peoples Champion, a 3 time WCW World Champion, main event matches with Hulk Hogan, Goldberg, Kevin Nash, Ric Flair, Sting, and he's.... Sara Calaway's stalker?!
Coming in and going after Undertaker is amazing. It shows you are on par with the WWF main event wrestlers. But to have it be because you want Sara, when you are married to Kimberly?! Just ridiculous!
DDP could have been the main guy along side Booker T for the entire Invasion angle as the two top main event WCW wrestlers. Just horrible.
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Aug 21, 2024 18:14:38 GMT -5
Off the top of my head... "Diamond" Dallas Page! The WCW Peoples Champion, a 3 time WCW World Champion, main event matches with Hulk Hogan, Goldberg, Kevin Nash, Ric Flair, Sting, and he's.... Sara Calaway's stalker?! Coming in and going after Undertaker is amazing. It shows you are on par with the WWF main event wrestlers. But to have it be because you want Sara, when you are married to Kimberly?! Just ridiculous! DDP could have been the main guy along side Booker T for the entire Invasion angle as the two top main event WCW wrestlers. Just horrible. DDPs pop was crazy. One of the best debuts ever 🔥
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Aug 21, 2024 18:15:58 GMT -5
Raven was another great one. Crazy pop!! He had a decent run after but he really should have been IC & European Champ tbh. Big potential right there.
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Post by MKSavage on Aug 21, 2024 18:27:36 GMT -5
Great choices so far. Taz definitely comes to mind; he came in hot as probably the top guy from ECW. A really good start, but then not much after that. Shame, I felt he had the look and attitude to work in the company. Yeah, he was small, but so were others at the time.
Sting is just unforgiveable. You finally bring in Sting after all these years, then you make him lose to your son-in-law. HHH didn't need the win - in fact, he and the authority needed the loss. They tried to make it about WCW vs. WWF/E, but no-one really cared about any of that at this point, they were just glad to see Sting. Not only does he lose to HHH in his first match with the company, but he also loses to their champion a few PPV's later. So, you have one of the biggest signings ever, and you make him lose right out of the gate. Horrible. If this was just Vince's way of sticking it to him for not signing years ago, or just trying to remind people that WWF/E beat WCW, that's just bad business. Sting should have been used as the guy who kept the "authority" in check, basically busting up all their plans and machinations. Yes, in the end, he could have lost, but not right out of the gate. Also, bringing in DX and the NWO didn't make any sense. Sting was never a part of the Hogan/Hall/Nash/Syxx NWO faction - and he never should have been a part of the wolfpac faction either - but none of that had anything to do with the storyline they were telling at the time (Triple H and Stephanie as the new evil authority and Sting coming in to combat them). Plus, like you said, Sting shaking his hand after HHH cheated to win made no sense. Just ridiculous all around.
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Post by JokerFC on Aug 21, 2024 19:42:14 GMT -5
Oh FGS yeah....DDP. Good God!!
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Rocky Balboa
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Post by Rocky Balboa on Aug 21, 2024 21:38:12 GMT -5
Taz and DDP had fantastic debuts and it went down hill literally seconds after.
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Old Zeke
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Post by Old Zeke on Aug 22, 2024 4:05:57 GMT -5
I've got to be honest - Goldberg's first run in WWE was pure crap. Again, a great debut - but like a lot of WCW guys, Vince just didn't get him or how he should be presented. Working 20+ minute matches - all it did was expose how terrible he was.
To think he was once the most over guy in WCW at one point, and Vince manages to ruin him inside a year. Awful.
DDP and Sting as well - awesome debuts followed by awful runs.
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Post by The Brain on Aug 22, 2024 13:03:44 GMT -5
Agree with all you guys listed so far so with that gonna add in a positive one that Vince didnt screw up...
Naitch in 1991. With the teases from Bobby on TV with Big Gold to his debut on PTW, just all around great stuff and how a presentation of a star like Ric should be presented.
From feuding with Piper/Hogan right off the bat to winning the World Title in January... That's how you book a star coming over from a rival company.
Fair to Flair indeed
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Post by jason88cubs on Aug 22, 2024 13:20:46 GMT -5
Going to put Undertaker on here. Holy cow. Imagine seeing that in person
Scott Hall at WCW when he invaded. "You wanna war?"
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nibs92
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Post by nibs92 on Aug 22, 2024 17:04:02 GMT -5
I’d throw in Big Show. Size wise he was once in a generation. With the McMahon - Austin feud white hot at the time, he’s introduced as an ally of Vince, yet Austin beats him on Raw the following month and loses a stipulation match (albeit by dq) for the privilege of getting to referee the main event at the biggest show of them all a week later.
From monster to just another guy in a little over a month.
Chris Jericho’s debut was one of my favourite debuts. Loved the whole Y2J countdown clock. Fantastic on the mic and didn’t seem out of place verbally jousting with the Rock. Pleased to say I think they got the booking spot on for his first year or so in the company.
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Post by hbkjason on Aug 23, 2024 2:08:01 GMT -5
Great shout on all three accounts! I was so pumped when Taz showed up! Was like Vince got four shiny new toys in The Radicalz just after and Taz got shoved back in the toy box
Like some others have said, DDP for me. Was so weird seeing him as a heel in the first place, but add to that the weird stalker gimmick and Takers wife actually getting to put hands on him, how was he ever going to be taken seriously after that
Would have been so awesome for a face DDP to show up, Diamond Cutting everyone and not actually joining the Alliance.
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Post by K5 on Aug 23, 2024 11:41:53 GMT -5
taz’s was so promising, reminded me of cactus jack’s debut also in New York to a tremendous pop for that street fight with HHH
that ecw NY crowd just ate it up
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Post by PJ on Aug 23, 2024 17:15:06 GMT -5
Part of me really blames Undertaker for Sting. Because he refused to work with Sting. Yet he told Jericho to suck it up and work with Fandango at WM because that’s what the boss wanted. Yet he didn’t take his own advice.
As for losing to Triple H at WM I don’t even mind that although I did want him (Sting) to win. And I think the reasoning that they give about building for Rock the following year is lame. I think Trips could have taken the loss and still looked strong when he faced the Rock.
But the thing that really pisses me off was the inclusion of the NWO and DX. Hell, they could have had them all come out and all help Triple H. Because with the exception of Hogan they were all Kliq/DX members. So if Triple H was going to win they could have made it that had them all help him. Then you had a year to make Triple H look strong for the Rock.
Taz was another big one like everyone else has said.
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Post by JokerFC on Aug 23, 2024 19:35:05 GMT -5
Great point about the Kliq members actually 😳
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 2, 2024 16:15:09 GMT -5
Part of me really blames Undertaker for Sting. Because he refused to work with Sting. Yet he told Jericho to suck it up and work with Fandango at WM because that’s what the boss wanted. Yet he didn’t take his own advice. As for losing to Triple H at WM I don’t even mind that although I did want him (Sting) to win. And I think the reasoning that they give about building for Rock the following year is lame. I think Trips could have taken the loss and still looked strong when he faced the Rock. But the thing that really pisses me off was the inclusion of the NWO and DX. Hell, they could have had them all come out and all help Triple H. Because with the exception of Hogan they were all Kliq/DX members. So if Triple H was going to win they could have made it that had them all help him. Then you had a year to make Triple H look strong for the Rock. Taz was another big one like everyone else has said. I agree. Taker should have just pitched the match and then Vince & company would have easily done it. A real money & huge dream match right there ffs. I agree aswell that HHH didn't need to beat Sting to look good for Rocky a year later. Sting could have won with help from NWO, so HHH would have still looked strong anyways. They could have then made HHH look strong all year in 2015, so then in 2016 he would have been ready to face Rocky at WM32. Sting should have had a better run overall.
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Post by MKSavage on Sept 2, 2024 16:56:21 GMT -5
Part of me really blames Undertaker for Sting. Because he refused to work with Sting. Yet he told Jericho to suck it up and work with Fandango at WM because that’s what the boss wanted. Yet he didn’t take his own advice. As for losing to Triple H at WM I don’t even mind that although I did want him (Sting) to win. And I think the reasoning that they give about building for Rock the following year is lame. I think Trips could have taken the loss and still looked strong when he faced the Rock. But the thing that really pisses me off was the inclusion of the NWO and DX. Hell, they could have had them all come out and all help Triple H. Because with the exception of Hogan they were all Kliq/DX members. So if Triple H was going to win they could have made it that had them all help him. Then you had a year to make Triple H look strong for the Rock. Taz was another big one like everyone else has said. What was the reason he gave for not wanting to work with Sting? I think fans would have been more accepting of Sting losing to Taker at WrestleMania than Sting losing to Hunter.
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Post by PJ on Sept 2, 2024 17:40:17 GMT -5
Part of me really blames Undertaker for Sting. Because he refused to work with Sting. Yet he told Jericho to suck it up and work with Fandango at WM because that’s what the boss wanted. Yet he didn’t take his own advice. As for losing to Triple H at WM I don’t even mind that although I did want him (Sting) to win. And I think the reasoning that they give about building for Rock the following year is lame. I think Trips could have taken the loss and still looked strong when he faced the Rock. But the thing that really pisses me off was the inclusion of the NWO and DX. Hell, they could have had them all come out and all help Triple H. Because with the exception of Hogan they were all Kliq/DX members. So if Triple H was going to win they could have made it that had them all help him. Then you had a year to make Triple H look strong for the Rock. Taz was another big one like everyone else has said. What was the reason he gave for not wanting to work with Sting? I think fans would have been more accepting of Sting losing to Taker at WrestleMania than Sting losing to Hunter. I don’t know if he gave one. What I remember hearing or reading was they asked him and he said no.
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Sept 3, 2024 18:41:32 GMT -5
DDP should have at least won the IC Title lol. What a joke
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 3, 2024 23:10:32 GMT -5
DDP should have at least won the IC Title lol. What a joke
He won the WWF Tag Titles with Kanyon and the WWF European Title. So at least he held two titles in the WWF.
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