[RETRO] Grapplers & Gimmicks by Hasttel Toy

[freaqualizer]

Dec 27, 2023 2:59:51 GMT -5 aaron34 said:

Dec 27, 2023 1:42:40 GMT -5 casanova said:

I really wonder why peopke are always so aggressive on this board. Would you call out someone this way if you were sitting next to him at the bar?

I own MOM, Godwinns and Savio. Passed on Godfather and Ahmed. All 5 look cheap. While MOM were allright despite the weird lines on the arms, just because finally having a MOM set is simply awesome, Godwinns had a significant drop in quality.
I and others are willing to support smaller projects (don’t call them a company) and forgive issues that are typical for beginners as long as there is a constant evolution of the product. Mitch however appears to struggle with maintaining the (allright) quality of the MOM set with future releases.
Add the constant scalping of his own line and the guy doesn’t come along like „one of us“ but more like a greedy clown people wonder if he is really support worthy.

sorry if i came across as aggressive, it wasn’t my intention. I find it really frustrating that all these small startups are doing there best to launch a toyline and getting smashed from people who don’t step up and have a crack. I admit i have been derogatory towards Zombie sailor- he comes across as an absolute a*s. Mitch’s line isn’t perfect, and he probably has tried to release too many figures too quickly, but would you rather have 10 figures in 12 months with a few imperfections or 6 figures in 2 years that still have imperfections??? Also has anyone on here who criticises dealt with design, artwork, factories in china? Probably outlaying some money of his own while also probably working a job. For me, they are adding to our collections, giving us figures we all wanted. For pre orders, if you get onboard and take the risk based on concepts good for you, if they aren’t perfect, sh*t happens. If they are a hit and there is a demand after the release, why shouldn’t he make as much money as he can. I am the type of person who calls people out face to face… and britishbrickfan or whatever is a constant critic - criticise the product not the person and there morals, sorry that is a bully and a coward. I have no problem with constructive criticism of a product but constant ongoing cheap shots and character assassination is not ok. Wow what a rant, Merry xmas!!!

I agree with this sentiment. The general consensus from most posters is “it doesn’t meet MY criteria. I feel this product is subpar. And no one else can say they like it. And if someone says they like it, they MUST be a sycophant fan boy. (Insert xyz other figure maker) is waaaaaaaay better than this garbage!”

It’s not so outlandish that people are happy with the items they’ve received. And it’s not so outlandish that people can support multiple smaller companies. And it’s not so outlandish that someone has a differing opinion than yours. And if you don’t want anyone to comment on your negative opinion, don’t comment on someone’s positive opinion.

[@Chair.Shot]

Happy to see people resolving their issues without things becoming heated.

The Grapplers and Gimmicks line is not at the level of other companies. Mitch has not given any hints as to what changes he plans to make in the future (if any). None of us are privy to the finances of the company, how much he is making, or if he has even recouped his costs thus far. There have just been rumblings and snide remarks/accusations made elsewhere. Regardless, I really hope that these are “growing pains” and Mitch is able to make improvements with each release.

For now, I’m happy to have representations of some of my most beloved memories as a child. Wild characters from a simpler time. But at some point there does need to be commitment to bettering your product. Those are my standards. Each independent company has shown they are willing and capable so that is what we should all expect out of Mitch.

[mrh]

@Chair.Shot -- the weird thing is the Mabel was incredible, then the quality went back. It was sad to see. I hope Mitch can turn things around

[britishbrickfan]

Dec 27, 2023 2:59:51 GMT -5 aaron34 said:

sorry if i came across as aggressive, it wasn’t my intention. I find it really frustrating that all these small startups are doing there best to launch a toyline and getting smashed from people who don’t step up and have a crack. I admit i have been derogatory towards Zombie sailor- he comes across as an absolute a*s. Mitch’s line isn’t perfect, and he probably has tried to release too many figures too quickly, but would you rather have 10 figures in 12 months with a few imperfections or 6 figures in 2 years that still have imperfections??? Also has anyone on here who criticises dealt with design, artwork, factories in china? Probably outlaying some money of his own while also probably working a job. For me, they are adding to our collections, giving us figures we all wanted. For pre orders, if you get onboard and take the risk based on concepts good for you, if they aren’t perfect, sh*t happens. If they are a hit and there is a demand after the release, why shouldn’t he make as much money as he can. I am the type of person who calls people out face to face… and britishbrickfan or whatever is a constant critic - criticise the product not the person and there morals, sorry that is a bully and a coward. I have no problem with constructive criticism of a product but constant ongoing cheap shots and character assassination is not ok. Wow what a rant, Merry xmas!!!

meanwhile, I am more than happy to continue to criticise Mitch and any other company who fails to invest in their own product, especially after a successful start.

do I have a problem with Mitch as a person? No, not really. I dislike his business strategy of overcharging for a product that isn't worth ten per cent of the retail price, and I dislike his attempts to cash in on FOMO by overcharging for the same products on eBay.

his solution to the backing card issue was - stick them in plastic bags and add another $10 to the price, rather than admit to his own failures and take the hit.

I bought his Ahmed, and regretted it the moment I opened the package and the figure fell apart. Now I understand that the figure was made by Rush, but it was sold with G+G's branding and Mitch tried to defend it as "What could I have done?" - used a professional manufacturing outlet would have been a start....

Mitch did an interview with 3POA where he literally tried to pass off the failings of his figures with the excuse "The factory is in China, what am I supposed to do?" - whose decision was it to make them in China? His. Whose decision was it to make them in a way where he only receives the final product, after they've all been made? His.

you say you don't like me (or others) criticising these startups? why are these businesses exempt from standard practice of a startup where the financial burden/risk sits with the business holder, not the customer?? why should we be prepared to put our money on the line (as we have with G+G and others) and take the L when it goes wrong? I don't believe any of these companies should be putting out concept art as their pre-order artwork, they really need to invest their own money (bank loans are available for this....) and have an incentive to manufacture a quality product worthy of the prices they're charging.

to date, we've had (ignoring repaints):

Smoke Train - looks nothing like Godfather

Ahmed Johnson - literally fell apart for many people, not just me

Men on a Mission - apparently decent quality figures compared to the previous (which isn't exactly a high bar to reach)

Godwinns - people who received them after MOM have questioned why the quality went backwards

Savio Vega - ok figure, compared to what could have been

his figures all have the same problems with the torso seams - it's an easy fix, for a factory that knows what it's doing. there's no excuse to be 6 figures in and still have the same problems as figure 1.

I'd love to buy Droese, I'm just waiting to see what the final product is like before taking that plunge, because I've been burned on previous G+G figures and don't want to waste my money on something that currently looks like it reuses previously released parts. if that means I'm paying $10 more for someone profiting on eBay, so be it. G+G doesn't need my investment to proceed, but I'm not preordering anything from them until the quality of the finished products is that of something worth $25 or more. (right now, his figures aren't even worth $5, but he'd make a healthy profit selling them at that price!)

[britishbrickfan]

Dec 27, 2023 12:34:31 GMT -5 @Chair.Shot said:

Happy to see people resolving their issues without things becoming heated.

The Grapplers and Gimmicks line is not at the level of other companies. Mitch has not given any hints as to what changes he plans to make in the future (if any). None of us are privy to the finances of the company, how much he is making, or if he has even recouped his costs thus far. There have just been rumblings and snide remarks/accusations made elsewhere. Regardless, I really hope that these are “growing pains” and Mitch is able to make improvements with each release.

For now, I’m happy to have representations of some of my most beloved memories as a child. Wild characters from a simpler time. But at some point there does need to be commitment to bettering your product. Those are my standards. Each independent company has shown they are willing and capable so that is what we should all expect out of Mitch.

I agree completely - G+G has the chance of producing great figures, but they are NOT on the same level of Zombie or Epic.

the recent releases from Epic have clearly proven they are NOT Chella in a different name - the figures we've had from Epic (Greg Valentine/Demolition/Powers of Pain) all look and feel like quality wrestling figures, and that's taken them a year to get this point.

Zombie's figures are works of art (arm length aside) but both companies have set the standard for the other indies to follow - G+G has a LONG way to catch up, and sadly, when Mitch has been interviewed, he's never given any impression that he plans to take his company beyond where it's at right now. which is a shame, the lineup he's got is on a par with Mattel, Epic and Zombie, yet the quality of his figures compared to the rest are coming in at fifth place or below. if that changes, if he took the time, invested some more money into the production and got a factory that can produce what his artwork suggests they're making, then he'd be onto a winning formula.

I just don't have that confidence based on what I've seen (and paid for) to date, and how the quality went back to Ahmed level, after Mabel and Mo. if people are prepared to recognise that G+G is not going to put out quality items, then good luck to them in buying them. but I'd rather invest my money into figures I know won't fall apart or lose paint in 12 months time.

[aaron34]

Dec 27, 2023 19:01:46 GMT -5 britishbrickfan said:

Dec 27, 2023 2:59:51 GMT -5 aaron34 said:

sorry if i came across as aggressive, it wasn’t my intention. I find it really frustrating that all these small startups are doing there best to launch a toyline and getting smashed from people who don’t step up and have a crack. I admit i have been derogatory towards Zombie sailor- he comes across as an absolute a*s. Mitch’s line isn’t perfect, and he probably has tried to release too many figures too quickly, but would you rather have 10 figures in 12 months with a few imperfections or 6 figures in 2 years that still have imperfections??? Also has anyone on here who criticises dealt with design, artwork, factories in china? Probably outlaying some money of his own while also probably working a job. For me, they are adding to our collections, giving us figures we all wanted. For pre orders, if you get onboard and take the risk based on concepts good for you, if they aren’t perfect, sh*t happens. If they are a hit and there is a demand after the release, why shouldn’t he make as much money as he can. I am the type of person who calls people out face to face… and britishbrickfan or whatever is a constant critic - criticise the product not the person and there morals, sorry that is a bully and a coward. I have no problem with constructive criticism of a product but constant ongoing cheap shots and character assassination is not ok. Wow what a rant, Merry xmas!!!

meanwhile, I am more than happy to continue to criticise Mitch and any other company who fails to invest in their own product, especially after a successful start.

do I have a problem with Mitch as a person? No, not really. I dislike his business strategy of overcharging for a product that isn't worth ten per cent of the retail price, and I dislike his attempts to cash in on FOMO by overcharging for the same products on eBay.

his solution to the backing card issue was - stick them in plastic bags and add another $10 to the price, rather than admit to his own failures and take the hit.

I bought his Ahmed, and regretted it the moment I opened the package and the figure fell apart. Now I understand that the figure was made by Rush, but it was sold with G+G's branding and Mitch tried to defend it as "What could I have done?" - used a professional manufacturing outlet would have been a start....

Mitch did an interview with 3POA where he literally tried to pass off the failings of his figures with the excuse "The factory is in China, what am I supposed to do?" - whose decision was it to make them in China? His. Whose decision was it to make them in a way where he only receives the final product, after they've all been made? His.

you say you don't like me (or others) criticising these startups? why are these businesses exempt from standard practice of a startup where the financial burden/risk sits with the business holder, not the customer?? why should we be prepared to put our money on the line (as we have with G+G and others) and take the L when it goes wrong? I don't believe any of these companies should be putting out concept art as their pre-order artwork, they really need to invest their own money (bank loans are available for this....) and have an incentive to manufacture a quality product worthy of the prices they're charging.

to date, we've had (ignoring repaints):

Smoke Train - looks nothing like Godfather

Ahmed Johnson - literally fell apart for many people, not just me

Men on a Mission - apparently decent quality figures compared to the previous (which isn't exactly a high bar to reach)

Godwinns - people who received them after MOM have questioned why the quality went backwards

Savio Vega - ok figure, compared to what could have been

his figures all have the same problems with the torso seams - it's an easy fix, for a factory that knows what it's doing. there's no excuse to be 6 figures in and still have the same problems as figure 1.

I'd love to buy Droese, I'm just waiting to see what the final product is like before taking that plunge, because I've been burned on previous G+G figures and don't want to waste my money on something that currently looks like it reuses previously released parts. if that means I'm paying $10 more for someone profiting on eBay, so be it. G+G doesn't need my investment to proceed, but I'm not preordering anything from them until the quality of the finished products is that of something worth $25 or more. (right now, his figures aren't even worth $5, but he'd make a healthy profit selling them at that price!)

ultimately the market dictates the price and the product, they keep selling and then aftermarket selling too. so moving forward with all your poor experiences of continual let down don’t buy them.

[aaron34]

Dec 27, 2023 19:10:44 GMT -5 britishbrickfan said:

Dec 27, 2023 12:34:31 GMT -5 @Chair.Shot said:

Happy to see people resolving their issues without things becoming heated.

The Grapplers and Gimmicks line is not at the level of other companies. Mitch has not given any hints as to what changes he plans to make in the future (if any). None of us are privy to the finances of the company, how much he is making, or if he has even recouped his costs thus far. There have just been rumblings and snide remarks/accusations made elsewhere. Regardless, I really hope that these are “growing pains” and Mitch is able to make improvements with each release.

For now, I’m happy to have representations of some of my most beloved memories as a child. Wild characters from a simpler time. But at some point there does need to be commitment to bettering your product. Those are my standards. Each independent company has shown they are willing and capable so that is what we should all expect out of Mitch.

I agree completely - G+G has the chance of producing great figures, but they are NOT on the same level of Zombie or Epic.

the recent releases from Epic have clearly proven they are NOT Chella in a different name - the figures we've had from Epic (Greg Valentine/Demolition/Powers of Pain) all look and feel like quality wrestling figures, and that's taken them a year to get this point.

Zombie's figures are works of art (arm length aside) but both companies have set the standard for the other indies to follow - G+G has a LONG way to catch up, and sadly, when Mitch has been interviewed, he's never given any impression that he plans to take his company beyond where it's at right now. which is a shame, the lineup he's got is on a par with Mattel, Epic and Zombie, yet the quality of his figures compared to the rest are coming in at fifth place or below. if that changes, if he took the time, invested some more money into the production and got a factory that can produce what his artwork suggests they're making, then he'd be onto a winning formula.

I just don't have that confidence based on what I've seen (and paid for) to date, and how the quality went back to Ahmed level, after Mabel and Mo. if people are prepared to recognise that G+G is not going to put out quality items, then good luck to them in buying them. but I'd rather invest my money into figures I know won't fall apart or lose paint in 12 months time.

so if Mitch improves quality and goes to releasing 4-6 products every 12-18 months you’ll be ok with this? Or maybe Mitch is happy with his speed to market, happy with his product, and happy with his sales and will continue down the same track until any of these things change. He’s shown he’s happy to change design based on feedback. Maybe he’s happy with how they are coming out?

[aaron34]

Dec 27, 2023 12:34:31 GMT -5 @Chair.Shot said:

Happy to see people resolving their issues without things becoming heated.

The Grapplers and Gimmicks line is not at the level of other companies. Mitch has not given any hints as to what changes he plans to make in the future (if any). None of us are privy to the finances of the company, how much he is making, or if he has even recouped his costs thus far. There have just been rumblings and snide remarks/accusations made elsewhere. Regardless, I really hope that these are “growing pains” and Mitch is able to make improvements with each release.

For now, I’m happy to have representations of some of my most beloved memories as a child. Wild characters from a simpler time. But at some point there does need to be commitment to bettering your product. Those are my standards. Each independent company has shown they are willing and capable so that is what we should all expect out of Mitch.

I agree with all of this. For me the only thing is, people seem happy with how quickly Mitch’s figures are coming out, this seems to impact the quality. The other guys - zst chella - seem to be putting out quality people are raving about but taking 2 years from order/payment date. So it feels like for G+G quality to improve there could be a time sacrifice in speed to market.

[3poajamie]

Dec 27, 2023 20:28:40 GMT -5 aaron34 said:

Dec 27, 2023 12:34:31 GMT -5 @Chair.Shot said:

Happy to see people resolving their issues without things becoming heated.

The Grapplers and Gimmicks line is not at the level of other companies. Mitch has not given any hints as to what changes he plans to make in the future (if any). None of us are privy to the finances of the company, how much he is making, or if he has even recouped his costs thus far. There have just been rumblings and snide remarks/accusations made elsewhere. Regardless, I really hope that these are “growing pains” and Mitch is able to make improvements with each release.

For now, I’m happy to have representations of some of my most beloved memories as a child. Wild characters from a simpler time. But at some point there does need to be commitment to bettering your product. Those are my standards. Each independent company has shown they are willing and capable so that is what we should all expect out of Mitch.

I agree with all of this. For me the only thing is, people seem happy with how quickly Mitch’s figures are coming out, this seems to impact the quality. The other guys - zst chella - seem to be putting out quality people are raving about but taking 2 years from order/payment date. So it feels like for G+G quality to improve there could be a time sacrifice in speed to market.

Powers of Pain and Demolition were 3 months from Pre-order closing to completion, Zombie has also sold ready to ship products

G+G are able to save time but skipping a process in manufacturing the figure but it’s still taking 5 months or so because the customer is finding the figure before it goes to molding stage.

I always go by if people are happy with their figures then leave them be, regardless if they are being gaslighted in their dms or not

[cheville2001]

What's annoying is that he's signing some good talent like the quebecers, koko b ware,Harvey Wimbledon, etc. Shame they don't turn out looking as good as I love those characters.

[Ruby Fusion]

Dec 28, 2023 14:20:53 GMT -5 cheville2001 said:

What's annoying is that he's signing some good talent like the quebecers, koko b ware,Harvey Wimbledon, etc. Shame they don't turn out looking as good as I love those characters.

Laughed really hard when reading Harvey Wimbledon... Sounds like a cheap copy of Johnny Polo.

I know you meant Harvey Wippleman.

[cheville2001]

Dec 28, 2023 16:35:36 GMT -5 Ruby Fusion said:

Dec 28, 2023 14:20:53 GMT -5 cheville2001 said:

What's annoying is that he's signing some good talent like the quebecers, koko b ware,Harvey Wimbledon, etc. Shame they don't turn out looking as good as I love those characters.

Laughed really hard when reading Harvey Wimbledon... Sounds like a cheap copy of Johnny Polo.

I know you meant Harvey Wippleman.

Bloody autocorrect.....lol....yes Wimpleman

[parrish]

Koko would look a lot better if it had the checkered diamond on the side of his pants. This looks like more of a New foundation Figure than a High Energy figure.

[MKSavage]

Dec 31, 2023 3:13:39 GMT -5 parrish said:

Koko would look a lot better if it had the checkered diamond on the side of his pants. This looks like more of a New foundation Figure than a High Energy figure.

Good catch. Since that is a render, hopefully they can fix that before production. 

Also, what are the chances of a chase for Koko? He did wear red pants towards the end of their run:

[newgenandy]

Dec 27, 2023 18:22:30 GMT -5 mrh said:

@Chair.Shot -- the weird thing is the Mabel was incredible, then the quality went back. It was sad to see. I hope Mitch can turn things around

Was just about the say the biggest issue with G&G is inconsistency

From poor to very good. No midpoint or consistency.

[kiphouse]

True yeah. Mom and savio are great. Godwinns are pretty whomp whomp. The accessories and concept were good but the execution sucked. Duke looks like he might be another simpsons character. Godfather isnt even worth talking about. Ahmed is good. Diana and that bulldog by association are where i draw the line.

[aaron34]

Dec 31, 2023 6:24:07 GMT -5 MKSavage said:

Dec 31, 2023 3:13:39 GMT -5 parrish said:

Koko would look a lot better if it had the checkered diamond on the side of his pants. This looks like more of a New foundation Figure than a High Energy figure.

Good catch. Since that is a render, hopefully they can fix that before production. 

Also, what are the chances of a chase for Koko? He did wear red pants towards the end of their run:

that red would be very cool for a chase

[voicesinmyhead]

Dec 28, 2023 16:49:09 GMT -5 cheville2001 said:

Dec 28, 2023 16:35:36 GMT -5 Ruby Fusion said:

Laughed really hard when reading Harvey Wimbledon... Sounds like a cheap copy of Johnny Polo.

I know you meant Harvey Wippleman.

Bloody autocorrect.....lol....yes Wimpleman

Lol still wrong. It’s Wippleman not Wimpleman.

[Mr Angry Cena]

Jan 4, 2024 22:17:06 GMT -5 voicesinmyhead said:

Dec 28, 2023 16:49:09 GMT -5 cheville2001 said:

Bloody autocorrect.....lol....yes Wimpleman

Lol still wrong. It’s Wippleman not Wimpleman.

Are you sure it’s not Wimbledon? 

[cheville2001]

Jan 4, 2024 22:17:06 GMT -5 voicesinmyhead said:

Dec 28, 2023 16:49:09 GMT -5 cheville2001 said:

Bloody autocorrect.....lol....yes Wimpleman

Lol still wrong. It’s Wippleman not Wimpleman.

Lol thankyou, I can't blame autocorrect on that one though....🤣🤣🤣🙈🙈🙈🙈