WWE, TNA, ROH, on top for two decades?

[Deleted]

In the '80s, the top three promotions were Jim Crockett, WWF, and AWA. '90s, WWF, WCW, and ECW. But it seems like for the 2000s and 2010s, for the first time ever, the same three promotions were at the top for back-to-back decades in North America (WWE, TNA, ROH). Like, now in the 2020s I guess the top promotions are WWE, AEW, and NWA Power? Not sure where Impact ranks. But the main point is, usually the top three change decade to decade, but it seems like the same three were on top for the 2000s and 2010s.

What do you think?

Also, wasn't sure where to include this because it involves multiple promotions being analyzed as opposed to just one.

[Yambag Jones]

WWE is so far and away the number 1 since WCW died. TNA/Impact was on peoples radars for a short amount of time, but I'd say they're number 2. You kind of have to say ROH is 3 once Sinclair bought them and put them on (somewhat) national tv. If you broaden the scope to include the rest of the world, NJPW is definitely a contender for number 2.

Right now it's WEW, AEW, NJPW.

Vince bought out every competitor and came close to running the whole industry into the ground. I hope more competition shows up this decade.

[rowdy1971]

I see what you're saying, don't mind others,  I would put Impact as the third top brand today and not NWA. They have been around a hell of a long time and it seemed that it was every week a couple years ago that they were going to fold. The same three were tops in those years because they had the money to stay that way.

[snowjorden]

I'll add to it.

Wrestling in the 80s wasn't nearly as big as in the 60s & 70s.

90s wrestling in the US is mostly overrated and remembered with rose colored glasses. Attitude Era is NOT nearly as good as people remember. WCW had way better match quality. ECW had the best characters and stories.

2000s-2020 wrestling has been TERRIBLE, outside of early ROH greatness with Joe, Punk, Danielson and the lot. Sadly, most of that will never get seen by mainstream wrestling fans. WWE has been terrible for the past 20 years. TNA had some stacked rosters and 2 people on positions of power that didn't know crap about wrestling.

Therefore.. we are stuck with a big 3 for 20 years (though AEW has replaced TNA, WWE & ROH stayed included) and it's been terrible. Thank you to WWE for killing the business.

I'll take the 60s & 70s territory stuff, please and thank you. I enjoy my wrestling with more promotions, more options and more popularity.. all things from 60s and 70s.

[Warriah']

Jun 23, 2020 10:19:17 GMT -5 Yambag Jones said:

Vince bought out every competitor and came close to running the whole industry into the ground

Given how few people watch the product now he probably accomplished that.

[kinnikuman]

It's pretty much just WWE, AEW, and Impact now. I luckily get ROH on TV here in Brooklyn, as well as MLW, but I don't consider them anywhere near the top three. And since NJPW got booted from AXS TV they aren't even in the discussion. I actually found an app on my TV the other day that let's me watch AAA which is cool! It's in Spanish, but that's ok.

[snowjorden]

Jun 23, 2020 14:50:03 GMT -5 kinnikuman said:

It's pretty much just WWE, AEW, and Impact now. I luckily get ROH on TV here in Brooklyn, as well as MLW, but I don't consider them anywhere near the top three. And since NJPW got booted from AXS TV they aren't even in the discussion. I actually found an app on my TV the other day that let's me watch AAA which is cool! It's in Spanish, but that's ok.

Roku TV by chance? What App? Are the shows relatively up-to-date?

[Yambag Jones]

Jun 23, 2020 14:16:47 GMT -5 Warriah' said:

Jun 23, 2020 10:19:17 GMT -5 Yambag Jones said:

Vince bought out every competitor and came close to running the whole industry into the ground

Given how few people watch the product now he probably accomplished that.

I mean, Raw and SmackDown still get over 1 million viewers. Those are diehards who probably won't leave no matter what, but I had to leave some wiggle room. It'd be silly to say he completely killed it. He's certainly doing his best though.

[TheXtremisT]

Jun 23, 2020 14:05:44 GMT -5 snowjorden said:

I'll add to it.

Wrestling in the 80s wasn't nearly was big as in the 60s & 70s.

90s wrestling in the US is mostly overrated and remembered with rose colored glasses. Attitude Era is NOT nearly as good as people remember. WCW had way better match quality. ECW had the best characters and stories.

2000s-2020 wrestling has been TERRIBLE, outside of early ROH greatness with Joe, Punk, Danielson and the lot. Sadly, most of that will never get seen by mainstream wrestling fans. WWE has been terrible for the past 20 years. TNA had some stacked rosters and 2 people on positions of power that didn't know crap about wrestling.

Wow. Talk about being opinionated and leaving facts out of it.

Vince buying out talent and having national exposure led to a boom period of wrestling. It was much more widely available and popular and pay per view gates prove that. Vince gave an avenue for his big shows, something that couldn't not have been done without the business side of things or the top, marketable, larger than life talent they had in the 80s.

People may dislike this term, but his brand of "sports entertainment" sent wrestling into the stratosphere.

And again, maybe the wrestling was overrated in parts in the 90s, but to many, it was prior to the 80s as well, depending on tastes. Matches with HBK, Bret, Owen, Eddie, Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, Austin, Jarrett, Flair, Sting, Rude, Perfect, Savage...... and other actual WORKERS in main or mid-card positions actually helped elevate and evolve wrestling. The brand of slow, methodical wrestling from prior would not have flown with the later audience.

But you cannot have a large wrestling following without stories, variety, entertainment, characters and of course quality wrestling. And the 90s brought that and continued to keep wrestling in the mainstream. Was wrestling in the mainstream in the 60s or 70s? It was niche as hell and still a bit carny.

And yet you talk about ECW with the best stories and characters. And say wrestling in the 2000s was terrible.... ECW definitely had its fair share of great wrestling, but it also had extremely poor workers and spot monkeys that led to today's short-attention-span wrestling.

[kinnikuman]

Jun 23, 2020 15:08:22 GMT -5 snowjorden said:

Jun 23, 2020 14:50:03 GMT -5 kinnikuman said:

It's pretty much just WWE, AEW, and Impact now. I luckily get ROH on TV here in Brooklyn, as well as MLW, but I don't consider them anywhere near the top three. And since NJPW got booted from AXS TV they aren't even in the discussion. I actually found an app on my TV the other day that let's me watch AAA which is cool! It's in Spanish, but that's ok.

Roku TV by chance? What App? Are the shows relatively up-to-date?

Pluto. One of of the Mexican channels.

And I happened to catch a marathon. I assume it comes on at it's regular day and time ... whenever that is. No CMLL though.

[The American Daydream]

Jun 23, 2020 16:36:38 GMT -5 TheXtremisT said:

Jun 23, 2020 14:05:44 GMT -5 snowjorden said:

I'll add to it.

Wrestling in the 80s wasn't nearly was big as in the 60s & 70s.

90s wrestling in the US is mostly overrated and remembered with rose colored glasses. Attitude Era is NOT nearly as good as people remember. WCW had way better match quality. ECW had the best characters and stories.

2000s-2020 wrestling has been TERRIBLE, outside of early ROH greatness with Joe, Punk, Danielson and the lot. Sadly, most of that will never get seen by mainstream wrestling fans. WWE has been terrible for the past 20 years. TNA had some stacked rosters and 2 people on positions of power that didn't know crap about wrestling.

Wow. Talk about being opinionated and leaving facts out of it.

Vince buying out talent and having national exposure led to a boom period of wrestling. It was much more widely available and popular and pay per view gates prove that. Vince gave an avenue for his big shows, something that couldn't not have been done without the business side of things or the top, marketable, larger than life talent they had in the 80s.

People may dislike this term, but his brand of "sports entertainment" sent wrestling into the stratosphere.

And again, maybe the wrestling was overrated in parts in the 90s, but to many, it was prior to the 80s as well, depending on tastes. Matches with HBK, Bret, Owen, Eddie, Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, Austin, Jarrett, Flair, Sting, Rude, Perfect, Savage...... and other actual WORKERS in main or mid-card positions actually helped elevate and evolve wrestling. The brand of slow, methodical wrestling from prior would not have flown with the later audience.

But you cannot have a large wrestling following without stories, variety, entertainment, characters and of course quality wrestling. And the 90s brought that and continued to keep wrestling in the mainstream. Was wrestling in the mainstream in the 60s or 70s? It was niche as hell and still a bit carny.

And yet you talk about ECW with the best stories and characters. And say wrestling in the 2000s was terrible.... ECW definitely had its fair share of great wrestling, but it also had extremely poor workers and spot monkeys that led to today's short-attention-span wrestling.

my favorite part was how it started with "I'll add to it" and then proceeded to rip every product and era on topic only to bring up two off topic eras and sing their praise as if it was factual evidence. Well done.

I agree with the way you disagreed with him.

[snowjorden]

Jun 23, 2020 16:36:38 GMT -5 TheXtremisT said:

Jun 23, 2020 14:05:44 GMT -5 snowjorden said:

I'll add to it.

Wrestling in the 80s wasn't nearly was big as in the 60s & 70s.

90s wrestling in the US is mostly overrated and remembered with rose colored glasses. Attitude Era is NOT nearly as good as people remember. WCW had way better match quality. ECW had the best characters and stories.

2000s-2020 wrestling has been TERRIBLE, outside of early ROH greatness with Joe, Punk, Danielson and the lot. Sadly, most of that will never get seen by mainstream wrestling fans. WWE has been terrible for the past 20 years. TNA had some stacked rosters and 2 people on positions of power that didn't know crap about wrestling.

Wow. Talk about being opinionated and leaving facts out of it.

Vince buying out talent and having national exposure led to a boom period of wrestling. It was much more widely available and popular and pay per view gates prove that. Vince gave an avenue for his big shows, something that couldn't not have been done without the business side of things or the top, marketable, larger than life talent they had in the 80s.

People may dislike this term, but his brand of "sports entertainment" sent wrestling into the stratosphere.

And again, maybe the wrestling was overrated in parts in the 90s, but to many, it was prior to the 80s as well, depending on tastes. Matches with HBK, Bret, Owen, Eddie, Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, Austin, Jarrett, Flair, Sting, Rude, Perfect, Savage...... and other actual WORKERS in main or mid-card positions actually helped elevate and evolve wrestling. The brand of slow, methodical wrestling from prior would not have flown with the later audience.

But you cannot have a large wrestling following without stories, variety, entertainment, characters and of course quality wrestling. And the 90s brought that and continued to keep wrestling in the mainstream. Was wrestling in the mainstream in the 60s or 70s? It was niche as hell and still a bit carny.

And yet you talk about ECW with the best stories and characters. And say wrestling in the 2000s was terrible.... ECW definitely had its fair share of great wrestling, but it also had extremely poor workers and spot monkeys that led to today's short-attention-span wrestling.

I can't and won't post all the details it would take to show why you are wrong;

A.) It's not my job to educate you. 
B.) Formatting the amount of numbers and names would be a headache. 

Put it this way, the NWA was made up of nearly 30 promotions, running 5, 6 sometimes 7 nights a week. Selling out. Some of the buildings, quite large. Adjusted for inflation, ticket sales are WAAAAAY more then what WWF/WWE have ever grossed in a year. 

TV ratings at their height were 7/8 million in the US watching on a Monday night. Percentage of homes watching that could be though, quite small. Meaning, though 7/8 million might've watched, in a country of 300+ million. That's not exactly "hot." 

When TV hit for the territories, each territory would regularly pull a number equivalent to 50% of possible viewing audience tuning in. 

I know, less channel choices then, more in the 90s. 

It is not going to be something we agree on, so either way.. that's that. OP was an odd post, so I decided I'd give some thoughts as no one really had seemed to be doing so. Sorry it offended you. 

[Controversial Maverick PUNK]

Jun 23, 2020 10:19:17 GMT -5 Yambag Jones said:

WWE is so far and away the number 1 since WCW died. TNA/Impact was on peoples radars for a short amount of time, but I'd say they're number 2. You kind of have to say ROH is 3 once Sinclair bought them and put them on (somewhat) national tv. If you broaden the scope to include the rest of the world, NJPW is definitely a contender for number 2.

Right now it's WEW, AEW, NJPW.

Vince bought out every competitor and came close to running the whole industry into the ground. I hope more competition shows up this decade.

Yeah, now you're pretty much just trolling. WWE is still top dog. Also, what the hell is WEW? Women's Extreme Wrestling?

[shenmue]

^^He did say WWE are still by far the top dog, and obviously WEW was a typo, he meant WWE. Read his post again.

[TheXtremisT]

Jun 24, 2020 1:22:13 GMT -5 snowjorden said:

Jun 23, 2020 16:36:38 GMT -5 TheXtremisT said:

Wow. Talk about being opinionated and leaving facts out of it.

Vince buying out talent and having national exposure led to a boom period of wrestling. It was much more widely available and popular and pay per view gates prove that. Vince gave an avenue for his big shows, something that couldn't not have been done without the business side of things or the top, marketable, larger than life talent they had in the 80s.

People may dislike this term, but his brand of "sports entertainment" sent wrestling into the stratosphere.

And again, maybe the wrestling was overrated in parts in the 90s, but to many, it was prior to the 80s as well, depending on tastes. Matches with HBK, Bret, Owen, Eddie, Malenko, Benoit, Jericho, Austin, Jarrett, Flair, Sting, Rude, Perfect, Savage...... and other actual WORKERS in main or mid-card positions actually helped elevate and evolve wrestling. The brand of slow, methodical wrestling from prior would not have flown with the later audience.

But you cannot have a large wrestling following without stories, variety, entertainment, characters and of course quality wrestling. And the 90s brought that and continued to keep wrestling in the mainstream. Was wrestling in the mainstream in the 60s or 70s? It was niche as hell and still a bit carny.

And yet you talk about ECW with the best stories and characters. And say wrestling in the 2000s was terrible.... ECW definitely had its fair share of great wrestling, but it also had extremely poor workers and spot monkeys that led to today's short-attention-span wrestling.

I can't and won't post all the details it would take to show why you are wrong;

A.) It's not my job to educate you. 
B.) Formatting the amount of numbers and names would be a headache. 

Put it this way, the NWA was made up of nearly 30 promotions, running 5, 6 sometimes 7 nights a week. Selling out. Some of the buildings, quite large. Adjusted for inflation, ticket sales are WAAAAAY more then what WWF/WWE have ever grossed in a year. 

TV ratings at their height were 7/8 million in the US watching on a Monday night. Percentage of homes watching that could be though, quite small. Meaning, though 7/8 million might've watched, in a country of 300+ million. That's not exactly "hot." 

When TV hit for the territories, each territory would regularly pull a number equivalent to 50% of possible viewing audience tuning in. 

I know, less channel choices then, more in the 90s. 

It is not going to be something we agree on, so either way.. that's that. OP was an odd post, so I decided I'd give some thoughts as no one really had seemed to be doing so. Sorry it offended you. 

Then why did gates and attendance dwindle in the 70s? Why did tv ratings rapidly decrease in the 70s? Overexposure. There's a reason why the 80s was called a "wrestling boom". And it was thanks to Vince McMahon's aggressive expansion and tv deals.

Ticket prices back in the 60s and 70s were dead cheap compared to today. So there was a much larger margin for profit back then.

TV ratings in the 90s were the highest they ever were, with regular 5s and 6s from 97 onwards, and you're discrediting that because it's a small representation of the population? Back then that put wrestling in the top 20 shows consistently for the latter years of the 90s. You cannot say the same for 60s and 70s wrestling.

Wrestling became mega mainstream, starting in the 80s and culminating in the late 90s, it was everywhere - countless merchandise, cross promotion with SNL, sitcoms, game shows, soaps, dramas, sporting events, Vince had made wrestling a cultural juggernaut.

You never had that back in the 60s and 70s. You don't have it as much as today. You discredit the 80s and 90s but if wrestling hadn't evolved and moved on from what you revered from before that period, it probably wouldn't be even as big as it is today.

Wrestling was in a boom period in the Hulkamania era and the Attitude Era. You cannot say that about the 60s or 70s.

And to your earlier point - you should at least "educate me", because the way discussion works is that - you make a point? You better make sure to back it up.

And don't flatter yourself by saying you offended me. I disputed your points because they were delusional.

[marino13]

This one wasn't me. I knew beforehand to stay away.