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Post by Kliquid on May 15, 2007 17:38:06 GMT -5
Joe Namath top five? Are you serious? You wanna talk about overrated.... Word.
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Post by sonstuds on May 15, 2007 18:29:42 GMT -5
His defense has a great line backing core. ... Apparently you've never watched the Colts play. Seriously. Their best LBs since '00 now play in Jacksonville, Washington, and Tennessee. I refuse to sit here and let anyone bash Manning and say how he only won because he has "elite talent" surrounding him. That's bullshit. Several HOF QBs did. It's a void arguement, especially considering he consistently leads the league in just about every passing category. The entire blame on Manning was that he had never won a Superbowl. He did, so how can anyone really knock him?
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Post by Kliquid on May 15, 2007 19:11:14 GMT -5
... Apparently you've never watched the Colts play. Seriously. Their best LBs since '00 now play in Jacksonville, Washington, and Tennessee. I refuse to sit here and let anyone bash Manning and say how he only won because he has "elite talent" surrounding him. That's bull ****. Several HOF QBs did. It's a void arguement, especially considering he consistently leads the league in just about every passing category. The entire blame on Manning was that he had never won a Superbowl. He did, so how can anyone really knock him? Peyton Manning's talent is completely undeniable. There's something about him that bothers me, but I still think he's the best passer and defense-reader in the NFL.
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Post by T R W on May 15, 2007 19:26:43 GMT -5
Manning is the most fun QB to watch since Montana. The way he reads defenses and calls audibles, gives me boners.
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Post by sonstuds on May 15, 2007 19:43:05 GMT -5
Manning is the most fun QB to watch since Montana. The way he reads defenses and calls audibles, gives me boners. Except when he's doing it to your team. Mother er was raping the Titans from '03-'05.
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Post by tim on May 16, 2007 13:29:21 GMT -5
i dont know where you guys have been but the best qb in the nfl is clearly the pillsbury throwboy jared q. lorenzen
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on May 16, 2007 13:42:46 GMT -5
I wont put Favre in the top 5. Not with Montana, Elway, Namath, Marino and Brady still about. One thing Brett Favre has proven is that he can win without having the best players surrounding him. So I definitely give him that and definitely goes down as one of the top 10. I don't understand how Brett Favre is not a top-5 QB... I'm from Minnesota and I've 'hated' Favre my entire life, but he's unquestionably one of the best ever. He is in the top-2 all-time in every notable passing statistic (and yes, that including interceptions). I don't even know how to respond to what you're saying. You're talking like Brett Favre isn't one of the single greatest, fiercest leaders ever to play the game. The guy has played in something like 260 games in a row as the Packers' starting quarterback. He has taken them to the playoffs 10 times and has been the backbone of that team since the second he stepped onto the field. What you're saying about the Patriots losing players can also be said about Favre and the Packers... And Favre has never had a "genius" coach who placed him in the position to win every game regardless of how he performed. Tom Brady is a great leader - but to put him on the level of Brett Favre - at this point in his career - is just ludicrous. Oh my god... I'm not a Peyton Manning fan, but to say he can only win with "elite talent" is just downright ridiculous. The Colts won the Superbowl last year and they lost Edgerrin James in the off-season before doing so. Incase you missed it, literally Tom Brady threw that game away. It was a horrid decision by a defensive player who intercepted a Brady pass that allowed New England to win the game. Tom Brady also has a great offensive line and TWO above-average running backs. His defense has a great line backing core. ... Apparently you've never watched the Colts play. I've already stated my points on why I dont think Favre is a top 5 QB. Definitely great, but not top 5. As far as Tom Brady goes......he did not have 2 above average RBs. He had a rookie RB that ran behind a damn good offensive line and will potentially become one of the best in the NFL. On the other hand, you have an injury prone OLD RB that couldnt handle a full season of reps anyway in Dillion. Peyton Manning, in my opinion, is over rated. The loss of Edgerring James? Are we talking about the same over rated James who averaged like 2.9 yards a run last season in Arizona? Its not like Peyton didnt get a decent replacement and he also still had Domnic Rhodes. Sure the defense looked sloppy most of the way.....but in the playoffs that defense pulled together and stopped Larry Johnson. It was mostly accredited to their linebacking core. I didnt say the line was fantastic. I didnt say the corners were. I said the linebackers. Joe Namath top five? Are you serious? You wanna talk about overrated.... Statistics aint all about it. Namath was a born leader. His team believed in him. He made everyone on his team better by his presence alone. Just like Jim McMahon did for that 85 Bears team. 85 Bears still go down, in my opinion, as the greatest team ever assembled and McMahon has to get a big chunk of that credit.
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Post by Kliquid on May 16, 2007 13:50:28 GMT -5
i dont know where you guys have been but the best qb in the nfl is clearly the pillsbury throwboy jared q. lorenzen The Round Mound of Touchdown, if you will.
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Post by Kliquid on May 16, 2007 14:02:08 GMT -5
I've already stated my points on why I dont think Favre is a top 5 QB. Definitely great, but not top 5. Based on what? You put JOE FRICKIN NAMATH ahead of him. That's blasphemy. As far as Tom Brady goes......he did not have 2 above average RBs. He had a rookie RB that ran behind a damn good offensive line and will potentially become one of the best in the NFL. On the other hand, you have an injury prone OLD RB that couldnt handle a full season of reps anyway in Dillion. They're BOTH above-average. I've watched both of the players. Actually, I've seen every single one of Laurence Maroney's games both in college and in the NFL. He's above-average in the NFL - that's my point. So is Corey Dillon, even given his age. The loss of Edgerring James? Are we talking about the same over rated James who averaged like 2.9 yards a run last season in Arizona? Ugh... Don't you think there's a reason for him dropping off 500 total yards when he went to Arizona? It clearly was because of the horrific offensive line (and coaching) Arizona has. Its not like Peyton didnt get a decent replacement and he also still had Domnic Rhodes. You could stick anyone in that backfield and get production out of them. When the opposing defense is focused on the quarterback torching them, it opens the running game wide open. Sure the defense looked sloppy most of the way.....but in the playoffs that defense pulled together and stopped Larry Johnson. It was mostly accredited to their linebacking core. I didnt say the line was fantastic. I didnt say the corners were. I said the linebackers.Yeah, and I said you clearly didn't watch the Colts play because otherwise you'd realize that their linebackers were the major reason that their defense was downright awful in the regular season. The person who made that defense 'work' in the playoffs was Bob Sanders, who was injured in the regular season.
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Post by sonstuds on May 16, 2007 14:23:43 GMT -5
he did not have 2 above average RBs. He had a rookie RB that ran behind a damn good offensive lineWith all the hype Brady gets.....he is still UNDER RATED! Look at the Pats last year. AFC championship game with an aging defense, no receivers, a decent running game and an average offensive line. Yeah, and I said you clearly didn't watch the Colts play because otherwise you'd realize that their linebackers were the major reason that their defense was downright awful in the regular season. The person who made that defense 'work' in the playoffs was Bob Sanders, who was injured in the regular season. Their secondary was better than their Linebackers. In terms of Sanders however, he played four games in the regular season. The Colts still gave up 100+ rushing yards in each. The credit shouldn't just be given to Bob Sanders for fixing the defense in the playoffs.
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Post by Kliquid on May 16, 2007 15:14:15 GMT -5
Their secondary was better than their Linebackers. Agreed. In terms of Sanders however, he played four games in the regular season. The Colts still gave up 100+ rushing yards in each. The credit shouldn't just be given to Bob Sanders for fixing the defense in the playoffs. Regardless of the teams running for 100 yards, the Colts are certainly a much better defense with a healthy Bob Sanders on the field. Sanders was simply not healthy in the regular season, but he still was able to help prevents big plays and step up in run support. In the playoffs, Sanders was still not 100%, but he was noticably quicker and more aggressive. He was a HUGE reason they were successful against the run in the playoffs and he forced two turnovers in the Superbowl itself. Let's just put it this way - no one else on that defense "stepped up" as much as Sanders did in the playoffs.
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Post by T R W on May 16, 2007 15:23:50 GMT -5
Jim McMahon gets a considerable part of the credit for the 85 Bears? Are you kidding me? Any mediocre Quarterback (which is what McMahon was) could have lead that team to the Super Bowl. See Trent Dilfer and the Ravens.
Joe Namath makes a bold prediction, and suddenly he's a great leader? He was a primadonna who was a decent Quarterback, who had a few great moments. To put him over Favre, Brady, Unitas, or several great QB's will get you laughed out of just about any serious football discussion.
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Post by layzie on May 16, 2007 15:29:54 GMT -5
i hate tom brady too
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on May 16, 2007 15:41:30 GMT -5
Jim McMahon gets a considerable part of the credit for the 85 Bears? Are you kidding me? Any mediocre Quarterback (which is what McMahon was) could have lead that team to the Super Bowl. See Trent Dilfer and the Ravens. Joe Namath makes a bold prediction, and suddenly he's a great leader? He was a primadonna who was a decent Quarterback, who had a few great moments. To put him over Favre, Brady, Unitas, or several great QB's will get you laughed out of just about any serious football discussion. You ask any one of those 85 Bears.....and they will all tell you how McMahon more than just helped them become one of the most dominant teams in the NFL. You obviously have no clue about the 85 Bears if you dare try and make a remark like that. It seems like most of you here are concerned about stats and stats only. Sorry......being a great QB is more than just stats. The QB position is the most important position on the field. It takes more than just great stats.....ala Tom Brady. And I would appreciate it if people would not just make up statements claiming I made. I NEVER said Namath was better than Brady or Unitas. I did say he was better than Favre. I no longer desire to continue a discussion concerning Favre vs. anyone. I have already stated my points and have heard the same argument from the same people over and over. Come up with something different and leave the beaten horse alone. I'm not gonna sit here and repost the same points I made earlier. Say what you will.....cuz I know someone will just say that I have no point and I am giving up. Its a typical response on a message board. But making the same argument back and forth is absurd and a waste of time.
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Post by Kliquid on May 16, 2007 16:08:51 GMT -5
Say what you will.....cuz I know someone will just say that I have no point and I am giving up. Its a typical response on a message board. But making the same argument back and forth is absurd and a waste of time. No, you just keep making outlandish claims and you have no factual information behind them... Like when you claimed Tom Brady "willed" his team to beat the Chargers, even though he actually threw what should've been the game-ending interception at the end of the game. But yeah, you're right - you just keep making great points that no one can falsify.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on May 16, 2007 16:25:15 GMT -5
Brett Favres daughter
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Post by Kliquid on May 16, 2007 16:29:12 GMT -5
waddap gurl?
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on May 16, 2007 16:32:00 GMT -5
Say what you will.....cuz I know someone will just say that I have no point and I am giving up. Its a typical response on a message board. But making the same argument back and forth is absurd and a waste of time. No, you just keep making outlandish claims and you have no factual information behind them... Like when you claimed Tom Brady "willed" his team to beat the Chargers, even though he actually threw what should've been the game-ending interception at the end of the game. But yeah, you're right - you just keep making great points that no one can falsify. Since when did 1 play decide how well or how bad one played or what really determined the win? I believe Brady WILLED his team to the AFC Championship. And I think thats what I said. I'm not talking 1 game with the Chargers. I'm talking the entire season.
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Post by Kliquid on May 16, 2007 16:43:41 GMT -5
Since when did 1 play decide how well or how bad one played or what really determined the win? Seriously? That happens ALL THE TIME in football. The NFL is a game about minimalizing mistakes and taking advantage of the opposing teams' mistakes. There are TONS of football games that are essentially 'won' on one play at the end of a game. Where do you think the term "Game winning touchdown" or "game winning field goal" comes from? I believe Brady WILLED his team to the AFC Championship. And I think thats what I said. I'm not talking 1 game with the Chargers. I'm talking the entire season. No, that is exactly what you said. You said Tom Brady "willed" the Patriots to beat the Chargers. There is no doubt about Brady's talent. His ability to carry an entire team on his shoulders has been proven dozens of times....especially last season. The Chargers were way more talented than the Patriots and I dont believe in the Marty curse, either. I think Brady just willed his team. How did he "will" them to win? By throwing an interception with his team down 8 points with less than 5 minutes left? The only reason that game wasn't over right then and there is because Marlon McCree (I believe that's who made the interception - someone correct me if I'm wrong) tried to "make a play" with it and ended up fumbling, rather than just falling to the ground and downing the ball. I'm certainly not "hating" on Tom Brady because I think he's an amazing quarterback, but what you're saying is completely ridiculous.
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Post by sonstuds on May 16, 2007 17:15:00 GMT -5
Let's just put it this way - no one else on that defense "stepped up" as much as Sanders did in the playoffs. I'll agree with that. I just have fond memories of Vince Young making every Colts defender sans Kelvin Hayden look silly. Name one current QB other than Brady that's better than Manning. Until you can do that, he's not overrated. Secondly, Manning isn't all stats. He is a leader, he gets them wins, and when the game's on the line he's pretty clutch.
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