The "other" guy......

[Deleted]

Some of your examples are a bit silly.

Steiners - Rick was a world champion before Scott.
Headhshrinkers - Samu was a lot older than Fatu, so his career was shorter after his success.
Harts - Jim was one of the top guys in 94 and 97 in the wwe.

As for Marty Janetty, I think he was incredible in the ring, his moveset was beyond amazing, and in my opinion is a better wrestler than Shawn. Shawn was a very good heel, and got great heat from the crowd. He had a more sellable character, which is why he became more and more successful.

It's hard to follow Marty's career as he didn't do much, but he is one of the all time best performers. And certainly one of the most under rated.

[jakksking1]

If Edge and Christian count as "other guys", i assume that means The Hollywood Blondes do too, right?

[Nivro™]

May 5, 2012 10:39:56 GMT -5 @cabbageconkers said:

Some of your examples are a bit silly.

Steiners - Rick was a world champion before Scott.
Headhshrinkers - Samu was a lot older than Fatu, so his career was shorter after his success.
Harts - Jim was one of the top guys in 94 and 97 in the wwe.

As for Marty Janetty, I think he was incredible in the ring, his moveset was beyond amazing, and in my opinion is a better wrestler than Shawn. Shawn was a very good heel, and got great heat from the crowd. He had a more sellable character, which is why he became more and more successful.

It's hard to follow Marty's career as he didn't do much, but he is one of the all time best performers. And certainly one of the most under rated.

There lies they problems that I dont think people are READING thread I made. I said their careers AFTER they split. Rick Steiner was never a world champion....before or after. Afterwards he did hold a couple singles titles but they were very forgettable runs. Scott went on to become one of the bigger stars in wrestling. Samu is 48, Fatu is 46...There isnt that big of an age difference between the two. Samu was around a little longer then Fatu, thats true but their age has nothing to do with it really. As for Anvil, I know better then to argue with you over it. Im really glad you like Anvil and he was a good wrestler but he simply went from being in one of the greatest tag teams to being Owens lacky in his feud with Bret.

[kazoosandstreamers]

Christian has had one hell of a career for being "the other guy." .....

[Deleted]

May 5, 2012 12:01:51 GMT -5 Nivro™ said:

May 5, 2012 10:39:56 GMT -5 @cabbageconkers said:

Some of your examples are a bit silly.

Steiners - Rick was a world champion before Scott.
Headhshrinkers - Samu was a lot older than Fatu, so his career was shorter after his success.
Harts - Jim was one of the top guys in 94 and 97 in the wwe.

As for Marty Janetty, I think he was incredible in the ring, his moveset was beyond amazing, and in my opinion is a better wrestler than Shawn. Shawn was a very good heel, and got great heat from the crowd. He had a more sellable character, which is why he became more and more successful.

It's hard to follow Marty's career as he didn't do much, but he is one of the all time best performers. And certainly one of the most under rated.

There lies they problems that I dont think people are READING thread I made. I said their careers AFTER they split. Rick Steiner was never a world champion....before or after. Afterwards he did hold a couple singles titles but they were very forgettable runs. Scott went on to become one of the bigger stars in wrestling. Samu is 48, Fatu is 46...There isnt that big of an age difference between the two. Samu was around a little longer then Fatu, thats true but their age has nothing to do with it really. As for Anvil, I know better then to argue with you over it. Im really glad you like Anvil and he was a good wrestler but he simply went from being in one of the greatest tag teams to being Owens lacky in his feud with Bret.

My bad, I meant Rick was United States champ, he wasn't unsuccessful at all.

As for Anvil, he wasn't Owen's lacky, the fued was turned from Owen vs Bret, to Owen & Anvil vs Bret & Bulldog. They had a huge headlining tour of europe called the hart attack tour in 94, of which I was there when they went to wembly. He was then involved in the biggest fued of 97, The Harts vs Austin.

[Raine]

Neidhart was just making up the numbers in the Harts vs Austin/USA feud in 1997 and definitely wasn't a top guy at that time, its like saying Scott Norton, Virgil & Mike Rotunda who were part of the nWo in 1997 were top guys cause they were in the main stable.

[Deleted]

May 5, 2012 16:25:15 GMT -5 Raine said:

Neidhart was just making up the numbers in the Harts vs Austin/USA feud in 1997 and definitely wasn't a top guy at that time, its like saying Scott Norton, Virgil & Mike Rotunda who were part of the nWo in 1997 were top guys cause they were in the main stable.

They could have very easily not had Anvil back, they didn't NEED 5 people in the faction, in fact just Owen, Bulldog and Bret would have been enough by that logic.

He was brought back because he IS the Hart Foundation. And is unquestionably one of the top guys in the company at the time. He was consistently main eventing raws along with the other harts and austin.

[Raine]

Unquestionably a top guy? No way, I cant hardly remember one match on RAW in 1997, that Neidhart was part of, that was memorable, other than being handcuffed to a ring post during a Stone Cold match against Pillman.

He wasn't even on the Summerslam 1997 card, which was primarily promoting Hart Foundation members with stipulations in their matches.

Jim Neidhart's prime was 1988 - 1990 as part of the HF.

[Deleted]

May 5, 2012 16:58:36 GMT -5 Raine said:

Unquestionably a top guy? No way, I cant hardly remember one match on RAW in 1997, that Neidhart was part of, that was memorable, other than being handcuffed to a ring post during a Stone Cold match against Pillman.

He wasn't even on the Summerslam 1997 card, which was primarily promoting Hart Foundation members with stipulations in their matches.

Jim Neidhart's prime was 1988 - 1990 as part of the HF.

If you watch the "best of raw" vhs tapes they did from 97, nearly every match had Neidhart involved that the Harts were in while he was in the company.

Althouhg he had to leave for a while around Summerslam to fulfill contractual obligations in the indies, that he had signed before Vinnie wanted him back.

[Deleted]

My favorite tag-team has always been the New Age Outlaws. I have always thought they were equal with success. They are both multiple time tag-team champions, both are former hardcore champions and both are former intercontinental champions. Road Dogg is a former NWA Tag-Team Champion while Billy is not. But I always believed that Road Dogg was the "other guy" just because of his drug problems. Road Dogg wasn't the most technically sound wrestler but he could still perform really well. He was over huge and always had the crowd eating out of the palm of his hand.

Billy Gunn was over but he usually got the Matt Hardy treatment as I call it. What I mean by that is when the NAO music would hit, everyone would pop and Billy would come out and the crowd would kind of die down. Same stuff happened with Matt, he would come out and the crowd would realize it's not Jeff and not cheer as loudly.

Road Dogg could've stayed in WWE for as long as Billy did but drugs ruined his run. I don't think Road Dogg would've been a WWE Champion or World Heavyweight Champion, but he could've had a couple of more runs with the I.C. belt and stayed relevant.

[Deleted]

I agree with Harlem Heat, Stevie Ray really wasn't anywhere as big as Booker T became.

[Raine]

May 5, 2012 17:08:30 GMT -5 @cabbageconkers said:

May 5, 2012 16:58:36 GMT -5 Raine said:

Unquestionably a top guy? No way, I cant hardly remember one match on RAW in 1997, that Neidhart was part of, that was memorable, other than being handcuffed to a ring post during a Stone Cold match against Pillman.

He wasn't even on the Summerslam 1997 card, which was primarily promoting Hart Foundation members with stipulations in their matches.

Jim Neidhart's prime was 1988 - 1990 as part of the HF.

If you watch the "best of raw" vhs tapes they did from 97, nearly every match had Neidhart involved that the Harts were in while he was in the company.

Althouhg he had to leave for a while around Summerslam to fulfill contractual obligations in the indies, that he had signed before Vinnie wanted him back.

Just read through some RAW 1997 from May to August, Neidhart is involved in just 3 singles matches vs Goldust, Austin & Shamrock losing all 3, the only main event was against Austin. If he were involved in the other main events of RAW 1997 as you say, its in a henchman role.

No different to The Disciple (Brutus Beefcake) in WCW when Hogan was main eventing Nitros, was just a lackey at ringside.

[jammer311]

Don't forget the Killer Bees!!

Where Jim Brunzell ended up being a jobber to the stars, Brian Blair ended up being the Iron Sheik's lover.

[Deleted]

May 6, 2012 9:03:52 GMT -5 Raine said:

May 5, 2012 17:08:30 GMT -5 @cabbageconkers said:

If you watch the "best of raw" vhs tapes they did from 97, nearly every match had Neidhart involved that the Harts were in while he was in the company.

Althouhg he had to leave for a while around Summerslam to fulfill contractual obligations in the indies, that he had signed before Vinnie wanted him back.

Just read through some RAW 1997 from May to August, Neidhart is involved in just 3 singles matches vs Goldust, Austin & Shamrock losing all 3, the only main event was against Austin. If he were involved in the other main events of RAW 1997 as you say, its in a henchman role.

No different to The Disciple (Brutus Beefcake) in WCW when Hogan was main eventing Nitros, was just a lackey at ringside.

Neidhart was there until mid December.

[Raine]

May 19, 1997--RAW: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Jim Neidhart ended in a No Contest.
May 26, 1997--RAW: Legion of Doom defeated Brian Pillman & Jim Neidhart by DQ.
June 16, 1997--RAW: Goldust defeated Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart.
June 30, 1997--RAW: Stone Cold Steve Austin defeated Jim Neidhart by DQ.
July 14, 1997--RAW: Ken Shamrock defeated Jim Neidhart by DQ.
December 1, 1997--RAW: Hunter Hearst Helmsley defeated Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart.

That is officially all the matches Neidhart was involved during 1997 RAW's, he didn't win a single match. So I was 1 singles match out, and that was when he was embarrased by DX.

I understand you are a big fan of Jim going by your name but this officially puts to bed that Neidhart was ever a top guy in 1997.

[jammer311]

May 6, 2012 11:38:16 GMT -5 @cabbageconkers said:

May 6, 2012 9:03:52 GMT -5 Raine said:

Just read through some RAW 1997 from May to August, Neidhart is involved in just 3 singles matches vs Goldust, Austin & Shamrock losing all 3, the only main event was against Austin. If he were involved in the other main events of RAW 1997 as you say, its in a henchman role.

No different to The Disciple (Brutus Beefcake) in WCW when Hogan was main eventing Nitros, was just a lackey at ringside.

Neidhart was there until mid December.

Of course you are gonna say Jim Neidhart. You are a Neidhart fan. But Jim Neidhart did not have any break out moment in 1997. I mean the guy was so not needed that they let him go before SummerSlam because he stated that if any Hart Foundation team member lost, he would shave his goatee. Then he left, and came back in like October again when Pillman died.

Jim Neidhart was the VK Wallstreet, Vincent or Stevie Ray of the Hart Foundation, if we were to compare the Harts to the NWO.

[Deleted]

May 6, 2012 11:49:38 GMT -5 Raine said:

May 19, 1997--RAW: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Jim Neidhart ended in a No Contest.
May 26, 1997--RAW: Legion of Doom defeated Brian Pillman & Jim Neidhart by DQ.
June 16, 1997--RAW: Goldust defeated Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart.
June 30, 1997--RAW: Stone Cold Steve Austin defeated Jim Neidhart by DQ.
July 14, 1997--RAW: Ken Shamrock defeated Jim Neidhart by DQ.
December 1, 1997--RAW: Hunter Hearst Helmsley defeated Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart.

That is officially all the matches Neidhart was involved during 1997 RAW's, he didn't win a single match. So I was 1 singles match out, and that was when he was embarrased by DX.

I understand you are a big fan of Jim going by your name but this officially puts to bed that Neidhart was ever a top guy in 1997.

I guess The Rock isn't a top guy either then? As he's only had two matches in the last 8 years or so.

The fact is that he was a huge part of the Hart vs Austin fued.

Also it's worthwile to note that he didn't wrestle on raw every week, but he made a lot more appearances than that.

[cordless2016]

My only question mark/concern over this is that the NWA Title at the time as a very very small championship that really didnt matter. On top of that, I honestly dont think Christian would have see the World Title if it wasnt for Edge's injury. His run is right up there with Mysterio in the fact they got it for the "feel good" factor.

The NWA title from 2005-2007 was more prestegious than the WWE and World titles have been for the last few years. The NWA title wasn't passed around every five seconds back then like the WWE world titles are today, and the fact Christian cleanly defeated Jarret for his first world title says alot considering Jarrett had been the "HHH" of TNA since 2004. He second win was also nothing to scoff about, as he defeated Sting and Abyss for the title.

Edge also has gone on to say in interviews that even if he hadn't reitred, Christian would have had his big title win. They were planning on a feud between them for the world title before Edge's injury.

[Raine]

May 6, 2012 14:13:14 GMT -5 @cabbageconkers said:

May 6, 2012 11:49:38 GMT -5 Raine said:

May 19, 1997--RAW: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Jim Neidhart ended in a No Contest.
May 26, 1997--RAW: Legion of Doom defeated Brian Pillman & Jim Neidhart by DQ.
June 16, 1997--RAW: Goldust defeated Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart.
June 30, 1997--RAW: Stone Cold Steve Austin defeated Jim Neidhart by DQ.
July 14, 1997--RAW: Ken Shamrock defeated Jim Neidhart by DQ.
December 1, 1997--RAW: Hunter Hearst Helmsley defeated Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart.

That is officially all the matches Neidhart was involved during 1997 RAW's, he didn't win a single match. So I was 1 singles match out, and that was when he was embarrased by DX.

I understand you are a big fan of Jim going by your name but this officially puts to bed that Neidhart was ever a top guy in 1997.

I guess The Rock isn't a top guy either then? As he's only had two matches in the last 8 years or so.

The fact is that he was a huge part of the Hart vs Austin fued.

Also it's worthwile to note that he didn't wrestle on raw every week, but he made a lot more appearances than that.

Your comparing The Rock to Jim "Who?" Neidhart?

The Rock is a Hollywood actor/part time wrestler that is why he has had only 2 matches in 8 years.

In 1997 Neidhart was a full time wrestler, that was hardly used other than to beatdown Austin as part of the Hart Foundation attacks on him or to lose every singles match he had. He was the least talented member out of the 5 in the HF, he never had a memorable match in his whole singles career, fact is his when him & Bret split in 1991, his career became utterly worthless.

[Nivro™]

May 6, 2012 15:12:39 GMT -5 cordless2016 said:

My only question mark/concern over this is that the NWA Title at the time as a very very small championship that really didnt matter. On top of that, I honestly dont think Christian would have see the World Title if it wasnt for Edge's injury. His run is right up there with Mysterio in the fact they got it for the "feel good" factor.

The NWA title from 2005-2007 was more prestegious than the WWE and World titles have been for the last few years. The NWA title wasn't passed around every five seconds back then like the WWE world titles are today, and the fact Christian cleanly defeated Jarret for his first world title says alot considering Jarrett had been the "HHH" of TNA since 2004. He second win was also nothing to scoff about, as he defeated Sting and Abyss for the title.

Edge also has gone on to say in interviews that even if he hadn't reitred, Christian would have had his big title win. They were planning on a feud between them for the world title before Edge's injury.

I could probably hear an argument for the NWA title being better then the WHC but the NWA-TNA title was and will never be more prestige then the WWE Championship. I dont care how bad the product gets.

As for the Anvil situation, Raine has really hit everything right on the head. I like Jim Neidhart, hope we get a Mattel figure, and love both versions of the Hart Foundation but the comparison of Neidhart to Beefcake in WCW was really right on target.