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Post by IRS on Nov 8, 2011 5:09:52 GMT -5
I honestly think if Benoit was a few inches taller and better on the mic he could've been one of the biggest names in pro wrestling. And even though it's probably true that he only got the WHC out of respect from Vince I'm glad he at least got a reign. It would've been real interesting to see him as ECW Champ in '07 and I'm still mad that we didn't get that Benoit/Punk match I have a feeling it would've stolen the show plus they were teasing a heel turn.
As for why he never was a main eventer after '04 I haven't the faintest clue but at least he got good runs in the mid-card. What really makes me stew is people can't separate his in-ring work from his personal life b/c in the ring he was a great wrestler
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2011 6:29:28 GMT -5
yeah if Benoit had of been turned and given a mouthpiece like Heyman... man he would have been something as a heel.
he was already great as a heel but that would have put him over the top.
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Post by cordless2016 on Nov 8, 2011 13:44:05 GMT -5
To me, throughout his whole WWE career, Benoit seemed to have been held back because he came from WCW.
When he came in in 2000, he was treated as an upper mid-carder. While he did fight against some of the WWF's top stars, he was never treated as a seriouse threat because coming from WCW, Vince was never going to give him a big win over a top star in his first year. Benoit's false title wins at Fully Loaded an Unforgiven were awsome, but never counted.
After spending most of 2000 in the mid-card, he recieved a huge push in 2001, and seemed destined to win one of the two world titles(WWF or WCW Title). His neck injury couldn't have come at a worse time, as it derailed what could have been a career year for Benoit when he was feuding w/ Austin.
When he returned in 2002, instead of starting where he left off in the main event, he was thrown into mid-card feuds w/ RVD, Eddie, Edge, and Angle for the majority of the year. They didn't book him as dominant as they did in 2001, and he spent 2002 in the mid-card. After an amazing WWE Title match w/ Angle at the RR 2003, Benoit was pushed back down to the mid-card for the rest of the year except for his match w/ Brock on SD in November.
2004 was his career year, and while there are alot of people who didn't feel he should have been a world champ, myself and many other fans felt he did. He was over like crazy and always got a massive pop when he came out. His Rumble win and title win at WM20 are two classic moments to me, and I loved how he was portrayed as a no talk, all fight champ. He was different from other champs in that he basically kicked your butt and that was it. He didn't brag on the mic, he just kicked butt in the ring. 2004 was a great year for Benoit.
Sadly, and for no apparent reason, he was pushed right back down to the mid-card after his title reign ended at SS 2004, and stayed there for the rest of his career. Benoit was always over, yet was always put in the mid-card from mid-2004 through 2007. When SD was seriously lacking top names in 2006, I thought that Benoit should have been pushed right back to the main event and given a title reign when he returned in late-2006, but again he was given the U.S. Title instead.
I think that the "WCW" stigma always stuck w/ Benoit in his WWE career. Even though he was massively over w/ the crowd, he spent about 90% of his WWE career in the mid-card because he wasn't one of Vince's creations. Benoit had an amazing career, but looking back, it seemed like they could have used him so much more than they did.
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Post by nexusagainstus on Nov 8, 2011 19:09:34 GMT -5
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Post by ToastMaster General on Nov 9, 2011 19:41:21 GMT -5
I kinda wish WWE just pulled the trigger in 2000 and gave Benoit a WWF title reign. Angle still could've won the title in a 3-way or something at No Mercy 2000.
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Post by cordless2016 on Nov 9, 2011 19:56:20 GMT -5
I loved Benoit's heel gimmicks in 2000 and 2002. Built up on his "no emotions" character and even though he was a "smaller" guy, he came off as pretty intimidating considering his character loved to inflict pain. I always wondered how over he could have been had he been given Paul Heyman as his manager instead of Brock in 2002 when it was rumored. Benoit possibly could have had multiple WWE Title reigns from 2002-2003.
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Post by jammer311 on Nov 9, 2011 20:18:06 GMT -5
I wonder if Benoit would have stayed in WCW in 2000, how many World Title reigns would he have had??
I was a huge Benoit fan, I made sure to buy his dvd set, and buy all the dvds he was World Champion on, because even then I knew he would never win it again. I think any true hardcore Benoit fan could easily say "well... that was a sweet title run, we got what we wanted, but it won't ever happen again."
And that's not taking anything away from Benoit, but like I said in an earlier post, Benoit and Guerrero were given the World and WWE Titles in 2004 to please us wrestling fans, and to reward them with something for all the years they put into the business. But I am sure that Vince already knew that guys like Cena, Batista and Orton were gonna be at the top of the card in a years time.
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Post by cordless2016 on Nov 9, 2011 22:25:26 GMT -5
I've heard that it was Paul Heyman who was the major reason as to why Benoit and Guerrero won world titles. Even though they were both pretty over by 2003, Vince probably never planned to want to give them a major push. I've heard that it was Heyman who kept pushing for them to get title runs. He put Benoit in that amazing match w/ Lesnar on SD in Nov 2003, and after seeing how much Benoit got over because of it, agreed to push them.
Sad because Vince never wanted to push them in the first place, yet he acts like Eddie was always a top star when he is mentioned today when Eddie only spent a small part of his career in the main event. W/ Benoit, after he lost the world title, he was pushed right back to the mid-card and fighting w/ Orlando Jordan for the US title less than a year later. Pretty sad how they treated him, considering how in 2005-2006 SD was sorely lacking main eventers and Benoit could have been used so much more.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2011 6:59:43 GMT -5
a lot of people say Vinnie lost respect for Eddie when he practically begged for the world title to be taken off of him post WM.
I dunno if theres any truth in that but eddie did feel brutal pressure as champ and did ask to be relieved of it.
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Post by Sam Hain on Nov 10, 2011 11:31:02 GMT -5
What's sad is that he was slated to win the ECW title in his match with CM Punk that never happened. They wanted to build ECW around him and try to make it a legit third brand. I actually like the way ECW turned out, but would have loved to see the company built around Chris.
No matter how things ended, Chris Benoit always has been and always will be one of my favorite wrestlers. I still watch Hardknocks and let my son watch Benoit matches. My daughter once questioned why he's not around anymore and I just told her he passed away.
His movement in the ring was so crisp and intense. I still remember marking out huge when he sold HBK's superkick like it killed him. He just fell straight back, like a tree getting cut down.
I watched his Royal Rumble match with Angle a couple of weeks ago. It's one of the greatest matches of all time in my opinion.
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Post by punksnotdead on Nov 10, 2011 12:19:20 GMT -5
I am both amazed and thrilled that this has stayed so civil.
I think Benoit was an amazing worker. In terms of a top guy though, he was pretty one dimensional when it came to his character and promo skills. He was the intense guy, yeah, but there wasn't a lot WWE could do with that from feud to feud when he actually had the title imo. Benoit was just a guy that made more sense pursuing the title imo. He is the Rudy of pro wrestling. Once he got in the game the excitement sort of peaked.
Plus, Benoit was awesome at making guys look better than they actually were so I think he was far better off putting guys over in the midcard.
If you look at HBK, I think it's proof that the little guy with a ton of drive can be a huge star. But, Benoit lacked that charisma, and that ability to connect with the audience, at least as a top face. Chris Benoit was just the pure definition of a pro "wrestler." He was just cut out of that Bob Backlund, Bret Hart, old school mold. Which that made him unique during his time imo. Still, it's hard to be just a great "wrestler" in an "entertainment" company and be expected to carry the show.
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Post by jammer311 on Nov 10, 2011 13:02:16 GMT -5
Well, I understand why people say "Benoit lacked charisma" but let's be honest now... wouldn't you say that Benoit's charisma was the fact that he simply didn't have any??
If you think of guys that have no charisma, most are boring to watch. Yet, Benoit was never boring to watch. Simple reason being he was the Wrestler's Wrestler!! Hands down. The guy was the man.
I just watched Benoit vs. DDP last night from Super Brawl 8 for the US Title, and that match was amazing!! It was just a solid wrestling match that had a sweet ending into the Diamond Cutter. Simple, yet effective.
But yeah, to say Benoit has 'no charisma' seems to be taking away the simple fact that Benoit's charisma was simply not having one. I never seen any wrestler like him get such a fan following for having lack of personality.
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Post by wyleecyotee on Nov 10, 2011 13:35:19 GMT -5
He had that old school knowledge of the ring and how to work a match, what Bret Hart says is lacking today. He was amazing at telling a story and took bumps all day long. Every time Benoit wasn't on a PPV I was so disappointed and when he lost it made a PPV so much worse for me.
So glad people kept this thread about Benoit the wrestler and everyone in here appreciated what he did in the ring instead of the typical "whos benwa?" and all that.
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Post by cordless2016 on Nov 10, 2011 13:48:05 GMT -5
I've heard Eddie took the SD ratings to heart and felt that it was his fault SD ratings wern't that high(which isn't true). You can definatly see a differance in his "acting" pre-WM20 and post-WM20, and he seemed to get more uncomfortable w/ the role of being the top star towards the end of his title run. Sad because I enjoyed his title run a ton and thought that there was so much more potential for it, like possibly feuding w/ Taker had he not dropped the title to JBL.
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Post by jammer311 on Nov 10, 2011 14:18:27 GMT -5
Eddie Guerrero didn't really have that many guys to compete with on Smackdown either though. He beat Brock, then beat Angle, and then after that it was JBL, which wasn't that believable cause he just got done being in a midcard face tag team.
In 2004, Raw was stacked. Benoit had a lot of guys to compete with. Batista, Orton, Kane, Triple H, Flair, HBK, and if they wanted to, Benjamin, Jericho and Christian if that time ever had to happen.
Guerrero only had JBL and if they wanted to, Booker T. Smackdown just didn't have the star power, it wasn't Eddie being a bad champion, just the roster was bad.
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Post by cordless2016 on Nov 10, 2011 19:45:02 GMT -5
Agreed 100% about the SD roster sucking in 2004. Thats why had Eddie kept the title against JBL I think a face vs face feud w/ him and Taker would have worked. Eddie having to Lie, Cheat, and Steal to try and defeat the Deadman. Your right though that there wern't alot of guys he could have feuded w/. Possibly when Big Show returned after SummerSlam that year he could have remained a heel and feuded w/ Eddie, or his feud w/ Angle over the title could have continued when Angle returned at Summer Slam. But in terms of heels on SD, yeah, there wasn't much for him to do.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2011 19:54:57 GMT -5
thats a great point Eddie hadnt got anyone to feud with.a feud with UT would have been epic.....
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Post by jammer311 on Nov 10, 2011 20:21:46 GMT -5
I never understood why they didn't just send Scott Steiner to Smackdown and have him be a monster heel. Steiner vs. Guerrero could have easily been alright for the Judgment Day ppv, and with Angle being the acting GM then, he could say how he found a college wrestler who is deserving of being a World Champion in WWE. Though, I think the WWE released Steiner around the time of WM 20.
The weird thing is for Smackdown and Raw during that time period, is that before the draft, RVD, Booker T and the Dudley's were seen as the main threats on Raw to face Evolution, and they sent all 4 to Smackdown and had Edge and Shelton Benjamin go to Raw, and somehow Smackdown got horrible during that time frame.
Maybe it was the creative team?? I don't know. But the story lines for Smackdown after Wrestlemania 20 all the way through Wrestlemania 21, were just decent to horrible. So you can't blame Eddie Guerrero or even JBL, they tried to make that show decent. Raw was just more exciting.
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Post by cordless2016 on Nov 10, 2011 22:37:15 GMT -5
Steiner was killed off during his feud w/ Hunter, so no way he was going to get another title feud in 2004 when he spent most of 2003 jobbing to Test. I always thought that Booker should have gotten the Judgement Day 2004 main event w/ Eddie instead of JBL.
As for Booker and the Dudley Boyz, their credibility was killed off when they were all traded for just HHH. Booker fought Hunter for the world title at WM 19, yet one year later he needed a great tag team with him just to equal one HHH. It killed all three of them off. It also didn't help IMO that Booker was jobbed out to a mid-card Cena throughout all of 2004 when he should have been used as a main event heel.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2011 7:39:05 GMT -5
oh GOD I had forgotten that.
HHH equals Booker AND The Dudleys.Jesus that was awful.
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