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Post by mikey1974 on Sept 16, 2011 14:02:58 GMT -5
just something i was thinking about....
we all know in the fall of 1997 Vince had soured on Bret Hart from a professional standpoint,as he felt Bret wasn't bringing in the ratings/money to justify his contract, and Bret refused to renegotiate the "Lifetime" deal he had signed with the WWF, so together both of them hatched the plot that would take Bret to WCW,while in the process getting him more money than he was worth at the time....and,of course,things went REAL bad on his way out the door...
BUT...what if he stayed? what if Vince decided he WAS worth the money? What if Bret WAS willing to renegotiate his contract? What if Bret walked out of Survivor Series 1997 STILL a WWF wrestler? What do YOU think would've happened,going foward?
i'm still not sure if Vince would've let him keep the belt...he was adamant (obviously) about him dropping it to Michaels,but that was because Hart was leaving,and he felt he had to get it off him right quick...
BUT,it's also well-known that Vince was at this time building toward Austin as the next big guy in the WWF,and inevitable Champion...would Vince have felt a redux of Austin-Bret,this time with the WWF Title in the mix,would've been the way to go? or give it HBK and continue on with him,like it did happen...i just don't know....
of course,another instant change would've been Owen,Bulldog,and Neidhart wouldn't have left too...though i wonder if Owen would've even gotten a push as the whole angle was meant to be basically Owen attempting to get revenge against DX for what happened....
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@Patriot_Dan_C
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Post by @Patriot_Dan_C on Sept 16, 2011 14:08:02 GMT -5
I think to this day if Bret hadn't had left the WWE the British bulldog wouldn't have gone to WCW and injured is back which ultimately gave him his addiction to pain killers. As for Owen I very much doubt he would of had to have gone back to the blue blazer gimmick.
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Post by jammer311 on Sept 16, 2011 14:49:51 GMT -5
I think Bret Hart was gonna leave the WWE in 1997 no matter what!! Who signs a guy to a 20 year contract when the guy was already in his late 30's?? If that was the case, Bret Hart would be still contracted right through until 2006. I say that when he signed the contract in October 1996 that it was only good to November 1997. The Montreal Screwjob is the greatest work in the wrestling business!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2011 14:53:23 GMT -5
I dunno but I wish he would've stayed. Heel Bret in 1997 was the best thing going in wrestling at the time and Bret's best role to date.
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Raine
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Post by Raine on Sept 16, 2011 15:05:36 GMT -5
Bret would have kept the belt at Survivors 97 if he weren't leaving. He had creative control in his contract so could do what he liked. Also Shawn refused to drop it back to him at WM13, so this would have been his way of getting revenge on HBK by not dropping the belt.
Bret's 20 year deal consisted of him working till 2000, then becoming an agent for the other 17 years. Still reckon Bret would be wrestling full time now, if it weren't for his stroke.
As for WM14, Austin was a lock to be in the main event spot, whether it was against Bret or HBK is a good question. Either way there was no stopping Austin's rise to the top.
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Post by cordless2016 on Sept 16, 2011 16:52:13 GMT -5
After Austin, Bret was the biggest draw that Vince had at the time. Vince simply didn't think Bret would fit in w/ the Attitude era and "kicked" him out. He was still over huge and the best wrestler in either the WWF or WCW at the time, so WCW paid him the money he deserved. It's not Bret's fault that they completly dropped the ball w/ him.
Anyway, had Bret stayed, I still strongly believe that the main event for WM14 would have been Bret vs Austin, w/ Austin going over. Austin had been feuding w/ the Hart Foundation all year. He had lost to Bret at WM13, but after going through Pillman, Bulldog, and Owen during 1997, Bret was the last guy he had to go through, and that obviously would have led to their big WM rematch at WM14. After that, Bret has said himself that he only had a few years left in him, so I think he would have spent those last few years putting over new stars. He has said that he always wished that he could have wrestled Kurt Angle, so maybe he would have ended his career putting Angle over at a WM.
Also, had Bret remained the champ, HBK would have never hurt his back in that casket match against Taker. I'm not sure if he still would have needed surgey or not, but HBK would have also been able to continue wrestling during the rest of the attitude era.
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Post by mikey1974 on Sept 16, 2011 19:55:51 GMT -5
some good points cordless...
part of me thinks that they could've potentially kept almost everything the same up to and including WM 14....
Dec. IYH : Hart vs Shamrock...rather than Shamrock standing up to the Degenerates,he stands up for america,instead...
RR 98 : Taker gets his rematch ( on PPV,anyway) for the title in the casket match...instead of HHH and Chyna interfering,it's the Foundation....Kane still burns Taker alive,setting up their program for WM...
Feb. IYH : part of this,i think,would have to be changed,unless the undercard in the WWF wasn't severly altered by them all staying,because you had HHH and the NAO in the main event against Austin and Co., and i would imagine they'd want Austin and his teamates against the Hart's to build up the WM main event...
WM 14: Austin vs Hart , Tyson still the enforcer,they just don't do the Degenerate angle with him...
beyond that,i don't know...perhaps a full on Hart Foundation vs Degeneration X feud through the spring/summer, rather than DX vs The Nation of Domination?
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Post by mikey1974 on Sept 16, 2011 19:57:42 GMT -5
also,to be fair,Vince had good reason to believe that Bret wouldn't fit in with the blossoming attitude Era,if the Wrestling With Shadows documentary is truth...Hart wasn't really happy at all with most of the edgier stuff that was going on.....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2011 20:27:56 GMT -5
its hard to know.
Austins rematch with Hart at IYH:revenge of the Taker was great but throw the title in their the year after?I think it would have topped HBK/Austin.
I also think the logical way forward was HBK/DX to go face(NAO were always sched to join from early 98-HBKs idea)and feud with Hart and his foundation.
in may many ways The Nation justy stepped into the Harts shoes as the ethnic heel faction.
also HBK vs Taker would still have happened......that feud was ongoing and I still think the casket match at RR 98 would have went ahead.
I think HHH and The Rocks rises to the top would have been slower for sure.
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Post by cordless2016 on Sept 17, 2011 0:03:30 GMT -5
also,to be fair,Vince had good reason to believe that Bret wouldn't fit in with the blossoming attitude Era,if the Wrestling With Shadows documentary is truth...Hart wasn't really happy at all with most of the edgier stuff that was going on..... I believe that Bret and Owen both expressed that they hated the edgier attitude era, especially Owen, but IMO that could have added to Bret's heel character. He could have gone from an "anti-american" heel to a "I'm going to rid the WWF of this filth and bring back the family friendly era" heel. They might have still have had a match, but probably not a casket match. Taker and HBK's feud had mostly ended after their HIAC match, w/ Taker moving on to face Kane. By the Royal Rumble, it was basically just quick throw-away title fight to keep both men busy as they built towards WM. If anything, Bret would have still been the champ, and he would have been facing Taker in the Casket match instead of Shawn. I think that Rocky would have still rose to the top as quick as he did, but Hunter would have been questionable. W/ HBK still around, he might have pushed for Hunter to get his main event push around the same that he recieved it in 1999, but w/ Bret around to, the main event scene would have packed around mid-1999, so its hard to say w/ Hunter. But Rocky was over like crazy in 1998 and 1999, so I think that he still would have been pushed to the top around the same time that he was. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2011 1:25:53 GMT -5
We may have never seen the likes of Rock, Austin, Triple H, etc...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2011 6:47:25 GMT -5
We may have never seen the likes of Rock, Austin, Triple H, etc... Austin was already there man. going back to the Rock-I still dont think his rise would have been as quick. Im fairly certain Austin/DX vs The Nation wouldnt have happened.and thats where Rock really shone through. it would have been the "Right To Censor" like Hart Foundation vs DX IMO. |
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hammer
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Post by hammer on Sept 17, 2011 9:05:22 GMT -5
id tend to agree that rock wouldnt have risen AS quickly... but remember, him and austin were the last 2 in the rumble in 98, and rock came out at 1 or 2 if memory serves. the plans for a rock push were already well in the works.
but that feud with dx... and more specifically, that ladder match with triple h... was what finally put the idea in everyones head that rocky, and even triple h, could be THE guy. so i do agree in that instance... but nothing was gonna stop rock as the figurehead of the nation from becoming a mega star.
if harts presence wouldve hindered anyone, i think it wouldve been triple h.
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Raine
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Post by Raine on Sept 17, 2011 12:04:13 GMT -5
If HHH never became a main eventer or as quick as he did because of Bret, then no Helmsley/McMahon era would have happened. They would never worked close together and got to know each other so probably wouldn't have married, had kids, became COO, etc.
Tripper got alot to thank Bret for.
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jeffro2000
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Post by jeffro2000 on Sept 17, 2011 23:08:00 GMT -5
I don't think no one has pointed this out, where would Mcmahon lie in all this. The seed for the McMahon/Austin fued was planted with the screwjob. The Hart foundation/Austin fued was the best thing in WWF at the time, and I think it would had been Austin going over Bret at WM14 instead. However, the biggest fued in wrestling history arguebly was Austin/McMahon, with Austin fueding with Bret, when would that had happened.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2011 9:29:27 GMT -5
I don't think no one has pointed this out, where would Mcmahon lie in all this. The seed for the McMahon/Austin fued was planted with the screwjob. The Hart foundation/Austin fued was the best thing in WWF at the time, and I think it would had been Austin going over Bret at WM14 instead. However, the biggest fued in wrestling history arguebly was Austin/McMahon, with Austin fueding with Bret, when would that had happened. good point....... |
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Post by The Sexy Psychotic on Sept 18, 2011 9:58:08 GMT -5
If Hart had stayed I really do belive that Ken Shamrock would have been given a massive push, maybe even to the title. Hart wanted to put Shamrock over and respected him, so I think Ken would have maybe even been into the Main Event scene by mid 98.
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Post by cordless2016 on Sept 18, 2011 12:12:04 GMT -5
If Hart had stayed I really do belive that Ken Shamrock would have been given a massive push, maybe even to the title. Hart wanted to put Shamrock over and respected him, so I think Ken would have maybe even been into the Main Event scene by mid 98. Agreed. Had Bret been around, Ken probably would have been given a main event push after he won the 1998 KOTR instead of doing nothing, which the WWF ended up doing w/ him. |
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slowgraffiti
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Post by slowgraffiti on Sept 18, 2011 15:34:25 GMT -5
It's real interesting to think about. As people before me have said, there's a good chance; - Bret himself would never have wrestled Goldberg, received his injury, and had to stop wrestling. - Bulldog would never have went to WCW, and injured his back on the trap door, and went down the path to his death. - Owen would definitely never have had to do the Blue Blazer gimmick, and for my money, would still be alive and wrestling today. - Shawn would never have injured his back in the casket match with Taker, and that would really have changed everything in the WWF had he not had to leave in 98. I really wish we could just see what would have happened. Get Marvel to commission a "What If?!" written by Vince McMahon and we might find out  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2011 15:38:06 GMT -5
It's real interesting to think about. As people before me have said, there's a good chance; - Bret himself would never have wrestled Goldberg, received his injury, and had to stop wrestling. - Bulldog would never have went to WCW, and injured his back on the trap door, and went down the path to his death. - Owen would definitely never have had to do the Blue Blazer gimmick, and for my money, would still be alive and wrestling today. - Shawn would never have injured his back in the casket match with Taker, and that would really have changed everything in the WWF had he not had to leave in 98. I really wish we could just see what would have happened. Get Marvel to commission a "What If?!" written by Vince McMahon and we might find out man when its laid out like that.....whoo boy there was crazy fallout from the Screwjob. |
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