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Post by K5 on Jun 3, 2011 22:45:36 GMT -5
for the modern day monster athlete that wwe targets in, he was the perfect package no doubt.
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Post by slappy on Jun 3, 2011 22:47:13 GMT -5
Not at all. His heart wouldn't have been in it so why bother? He wanted to do other things. If he didn't want to wrestle, imagine if he stayed, he wouldn't have gave it 100%. I dont think you get what Im asking Slap. Im saying if he wanted to stay, he didnt want to do all the football/mma whatever stuff. He wanted to spend the next 15-20 years as a pro wrestler, could his size, in ring talent and charisma have made him the best ever? Well, then still no. No way he'd top HBK or Ric Flair. |
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Post by Jimmy on Jun 3, 2011 22:57:25 GMT -5
He adapted to being an elite wrestler quicker than anyone else I can think of, but that alone doesn't him the greatest ever.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 3, 2011 23:34:16 GMT -5
I dont think you get what Im asking Slap. Im saying if he wanted to stay, he didnt want to do all the football/mma whatever stuff. He wanted to spend the next 15-20 years as a pro wrestler, could his size, in ring talent and charisma have made him the best ever? Well, then still no. No way he'd top HBK or Ric Flair. HBK is overrated. Yes, he's had great matches, but it takes two to tangle, and HBK wrestled a bunch of other great wrestlers. IMO a big reason as to why HBK isn't the greatest ever is that during his 1st run he refused to put alot of people over, and even during his second run, didn't put over alot of young guys. He also was famous for throwing hissy fits in the middle of matches and backstage. If your talking about the greatest ever, look no further than Bret Hart, Randy Savage, and Ric Flair. These men had the total package and were always eager to help other talent out. Lesnar was only around for two years, so it is impossible to say for sure how popular he'd have gotten, but to this day, he is still one of the greatest "big men" I have ever seen step into the ring. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 23:57:46 GMT -5
I miss him. The ruthless aggression era was one of my favorite times in the WWE. There were so many talented people being used correctly that it's insane. You had Eddie, Chavo, Rey, Edge, Angle, Benoit, Lesnar, Haas, Benjamin, Tajiri, Noble, etc...all on smackdown and being used to the greatest extent possible.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jun 4, 2011 0:55:40 GMT -5
About carrying people to great matches, I think Lesnar already had that ability. For example, he carried Big Show to some of the greatest matches of his career. Lesnar fought alot of great wrestlers in Angle, Benoit, Guerrero, etc...and never really had a terrible match IMO(well, except for his PPV matchs w/ Hardcore Holly and Goldberg). Big Show is phenomenal for his size. Even when he wasn't in good shape, he could do things that few, if any, true giants could do. He always held up his end with Lesnar. Could Lesnar have put a on great match with someone very green, over the hill, or simply not very athletic? Maybe. HBK and Flair did all of that over and over. Those were two guys (Kurt Angle also got there) who could have wrestled a teddy bear and made it look like a titanic struggle. However, had Lesnar gotten to that point, he would have been even more impressive because of his size. |
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Post by slappy on Jun 4, 2011 1:01:47 GMT -5
Well, then still no. No way he'd top HBK or Ric Flair. HBK is overrated. Yes, he's had great matches, but it takes two to tangle, and HBK wrestled a bunch of other great wrestlers. IMO a big reason as to why HBK isn't the greatest ever is that during his 1st run he refused to put alot of people over, and even during his second run, didn't put over alot of young guys. He also was famous for throwing hissy fits in the middle of matches and backstage. If your talking about the greatest ever, look no further than Bret Hart, Randy Savage, and Ric Flair. These men had the total package and were always eager to help other talent out. Lesnar was only around for two years, so it is impossible to say for sure how popular he'd have gotten, but to this day, he is still one of the greatest "big men" I have ever seen step into the ring. HBK isn't one of the greatest of all time because he refused to put some people over? Yet you pick Bret who famously refused to put someone over. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 4, 2011 10:54:43 GMT -5
HBK is overrated. Yes, he's had great matches, but it takes two to tangle, and HBK wrestled a bunch of other great wrestlers. IMO a big reason as to why HBK isn't the greatest ever is that during his 1st run he refused to put alot of people over, and even during his second run, didn't put over alot of young guys. He also was famous for throwing hissy fits in the middle of matches and backstage. If your talking about the greatest ever, look no further than Bret Hart, Randy Savage, and Ric Flair. These men had the total package and were always eager to help other talent out. Lesnar was only around for two years, so it is impossible to say for sure how popular he'd have gotten, but to this day, he is still one of the greatest "big men" I have ever seen step into the ring. HBK isn't one of the greatest of all time because he refused to put some people over? Yet you pick Bret who famously refused to put someone over. Making others look good is part of being great. Shawn, especially during his 1st run, is famous for refusing to put so many guys over. He threw hissy fits whenever he didn't get what he wanted and even showed up on TV coked out of his mind. If your the greatest of all time, you have to be a leader and willing to make others look good. Bret always did this, even for Shawn. Bret did this at WM12 for Shawn, clean in the middle of the ring. Bret later refused to drop the title to that prompus prick because HBK was refusing to job to anybody, and was even saying it in his promos. |
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Infinite
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Post by Infinite on Jun 4, 2011 13:23:02 GMT -5
HBK isn't one of the greatest of all time because he refused to put some people over? Yet you pick Bret who famously refused to put someone over. Making others look good is part of being great. Shawn, especially during his 1st run, is famous for refusing to put so many guys over. He threw hissy fits whenever he didn't get what he wanted and even showed up on TV coked out of his mind. If your the greatest of all time, you have to be a leader and willing to make others look good. Bret always did this, even for Shawn. Bret did this at WM12 for Shawn, clean in the middle of the ring. Bret later refused to drop the title to that prompus prick because HBK was refusing to job to anybody, and was even saying it in his promos. Shawn Michaels never made people look good? We must be thinking of two different people here. And no, whether he was a "locker room leader" or not has absolutely zero to do with whether he was the best performer ever. On topic, yeah, I believe if Brock had the passion and stuck around until now and possibly later, he'd be one of the best. Dude was phenomenal, all things considered. |
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Post by marino13 on Jun 4, 2011 14:10:09 GMT -5
Yeah, I think the nickname "Next Big Thing" was appropriate at the time. If he had stayed he very well may have been the next Hogan or Austin. Guys like Cena & Orton would still have been on top but they would have shared the spotlight with Lesnar.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 4, 2011 15:25:23 GMT -5
Making others look good is part of being great. Shawn, especially during his 1st run, is famous for refusing to put so many guys over. He threw hissy fits whenever he didn't get what he wanted and even showed up on TV coked out of his mind. If your the greatest of all time, you have to be a leader and willing to make others look good. Bret always did this, even for Shawn. Bret did this at WM12 for Shawn, clean in the middle of the ring. Bret later refused to drop the title to that prompus prick because HBK was refusing to job to anybody, and was even saying it in his promos. Shawn Michaels never made people look good? We must be thinking of two different people here. And no, whether he was a "locker room leader" or not has absolutely zero to do with whether he was the best performer ever. On topic, yeah, I believe if Brock had the passion and stuck around until now and possibly later, he'd be one of the best. Dude was phenomenal, all things considered. Actually, it does. The greatest ever sets examples for others to follow. Throwing hissy fits isn't a way to lead by example. Michaels is a great wrestler, don't get me wrong, but his fanboys will eat up anything he does. His WM25 match is overrated, as is alot of the things he did during the last couple of years of his career. |
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Post by totti on Jun 4, 2011 15:43:32 GMT -5
HBK is overrated. Yes, he's had great matches, but it takes two to tangle, and HBK wrestled a bunch of other great wrestlers. IMO a big reason as to why HBK isn't the greatest ever is that during his 1st run he refused to put alot of people over, and even during his second run, didn't put over alot of young guys. He also was famous for throwing hissy fits in the middle of matches and backstage. If your talking about the greatest ever, look no further than Bret Hart, Randy Savage, and Ric Flair. These men had the total package and were always eager to help other talent out. Lesnar was only around for two years, so it is impossible to say for sure how popular he'd have gotten, but to this day, he is still one of the greatest "big men" I have ever seen step into the ring. HBK isn't one of the greatest of all time because he refused to put some people over? Yet you pick Bret who famously refused to put someone over. bret hart not wanting to put over shawn michael once is completely different to what michaels did during the 90s at his peak, using his pull with mcmahon to get what he wanted. hart rightfully didn't want to put michaels over at survivor series. |
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Infinite
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Post by Infinite on Jun 4, 2011 16:13:16 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels never made people look good? We must be thinking of two different people here. And no, whether he was a "locker room leader" or not has absolutely zero to do with whether he was the best performer ever. On topic, yeah, I believe if Brock had the passion and stuck around until now and possibly later, he'd be one of the best. Dude was phenomenal, all things considered. Actually, it does. The greatest ever sets examples for others to follow. Throwing hissy fits isn't a way to lead by example. Michaels is a great wrestler, don't get me wrong, but his fanboys will eat up anything he does. His WM25 match is overrated, as is alot of the things he did during the last couple of years of his career. I'm pretty sure that how you are backstage has absolutely jack poop to do with how good you are in the ring. Hence why I still think he's one of if not the best, regardless of how he was backstage in his first run. And there's a reason people eat up whatever he does- Because 90% of the stuff he did in his second stint was brilliant. |
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PenguinDeluxe
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Post by PenguinDeluxe on Jun 4, 2011 17:23:31 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels never made people look good? We must be thinking of two different people here. And no, whether he was a "locker room leader" or not has absolutely zero to do with whether he was the best performer ever. On topic, yeah, I believe if Brock had the passion and stuck around until now and possibly later, he'd be one of the best. Dude was phenomenal, all things considered. Actually, it does. The greatest ever sets examples for others to follow. Throwing hissy fits isn't a way to lead by example. Michaels is a great wrestler, don't get me wrong, but his fanboys will eat up anything he does. His WM25 match is overrated, as is alot of the things he did during the last couple of years of his career. Let see... he put over Cena, Angle, Benoit, Orton, Edge, Spirit Squad, Umaga, Chris Jericho, and who all else? Just cause a guy was a dick in the past doesn't mean EVERYTHING he's ever done is dickish. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 4, 2011 23:25:08 GMT -5
Actually, it does. The greatest ever sets examples for others to follow. Throwing hissy fits isn't a way to lead by example. Michaels is a great wrestler, don't get me wrong, but his fanboys will eat up anything he does. His WM25 match is overrated, as is alot of the things he did during the last couple of years of his career. Let see... he put over Cena, Angle, Benoit, Orton, Edge, Spirit Squad, Umaga, Chris Jericho, and who all else? Just cause a guy was a dick in the past doesn't mean EVERYTHING he's ever done is dickish. Everybody puts over Cena. HBK won that feud w/ Angle 2-1. Orton NEVER got a clean pinfall on HBK. When Orton won the title in 2007 and desperatly needed a big win, HBK was still made to look like the stronger characters. The Spirit Squad? Are you kidding me? 5 young athletes that were each killed off by HBK and HHH so bad that they were all sent back to OVW after their feud. Benoit got the tap out over Shawn at Backlash after sitting in the sharpshooter forever, yet every other time they met on Raw, HBK was always percieved as the stronger character before HHH would do his weekly run-in. Edge, like Orton, was never allowed a clean win over HBK. |
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jun 4, 2011 23:35:36 GMT -5
Let see... he put over Cena, Angle, Benoit, Orton, Edge, Spirit Squad, Umaga, Chris Jericho, and who all else? Just cause a guy was a dick in the past doesn't mean EVERYTHING he's ever done is dickish. Everybody puts over Cena. HBK won that feud w/ Angle 2-1. Orton NEVER got a clean pinfall on HBK. When Orton won the title in 2007 and desperatly needed a big win, HBK was still made to look like the stronger characters. The Spirit Squad? Are you kidding me? 5 young athletes that were each killed off by HBK and HHH so bad that they were all sent back to OVW after their feud. Benoit got the tap out over Shawn at Backlash after sitting in the sharpshooter forever, yet every other time they met on Raw, HBK was always percieved as the stronger character before HHH would do his weekly run-in. Edge, like Orton, was never allowed a clean win over HBK. They both had clean wins. Orton beat him in that match where HBK wasn't allowed to use SCM (I can't remember the PPV's name) and Edge beat him in a street fight on RAW. |
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Infinite
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Post by Infinite on Jun 5, 2011 4:35:46 GMT -5
Let see... he put over Cena, Angle, Benoit, Orton, Edge, Spirit Squad, Umaga, Chris Jericho, and who all else? Just cause a guy was a dick in the past doesn't mean EVERYTHING he's ever done is dickish. Everybody puts over Cena. HBK won that feud w/ Angle 2-1. Orton NEVER got a clean pinfall on HBK. When Orton won the title in 2007 and desperatly needed a big win, HBK was still made to look like the stronger characters. The Spirit Squad? Are you kidding me? 5 young athletes that were each killed off by HBK and HHH so bad that they were all sent back to OVW after their feud. Benoit got the tap out over Shawn at Backlash after sitting in the sharpshooter forever, yet every other time they met on Raw, HBK was always percieved as the stronger character before HHH would do his weekly run-in. Edge, like Orton, was never allowed a clean win over HBK. Once again, even though I disagree with pretty much everything you just said, even if it was true it wouldn't make any difference as far as him being one of the best ever is concerned. |
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Callum1993
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Post by Callum1993 on Jun 5, 2011 6:03:22 GMT -5
Shawn is one of the great's I agree and he did put over a lot of guys in his second run. However in his first run he was a dick to a lot of guys and ruined a lot of careers e.g. Tatanka(refusing to drop IC Title) Vader, British Bulldog etc
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2011 7:23:58 GMT -5
this thread is about Lesnar lads.talk about him.
I swear to God EVERY thread thats opened in here concerning Lesnar turns into a row about other wrestlers.this is like the 4th time its happened
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Jun 5, 2011 16:00:30 GMT -5
I personally think as far as accomplishing things in professional wrestling in a short time period he is one of the greatest and in my mind could have been without a doubt the most dominant professional wrestler in all of WWE and possibly Japan(which in my mind is the true mecca) if he had went and stayed there after leaving. I still don't know WHY he left and wish he hadn't. Also imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Look at all the lesnar knock offs that have come through WWE since lesnar left. I'm referring to lashley and batista especially. both were succesful but had NO where near the complete package that lesnar did. nor the pure ability to carry anyone he worked with and make them a dangerous threat in the kafabe world had they beaten him. so he has my vote as the best juggernaut style big man ever. I say that both biased and unbiasedly because for one he fits into the character label like a hotdog in a chicks mouth! and that unstoppable, giant killer, cruiserweight griller type shooter with a cocky attitude just fires up the fans to no end when the wrestler who is playing the role could pull it all together the way brock did.
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