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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2011 19:46:10 GMT -5
often talked about but lets chew it over in its own thread.I dont know what it was but I know what is WASNT.
one of the most popular theories was its because Savage left for WCW.even without all the evidence to the contrary that wouldnt be enough to fuel Vinnies furnace for 17 years.
but heres why it wasnt.
Savage wanted to be a top level performer and felt he had heaps left to offer-Vince however didnt see Savage fitting in to his New Generation movement.........
Savages contract expired at the end of Oct 94.Vince KNEW he was going and gave him an on air farewell at the Nov 7 .Raw.
so I think we can rule out Savage signing with WCW as the reason.
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on May 26, 2011 19:53:04 GMT -5
often talked about but lets chew it over in its own thread.I dont know what it was but I know what is WASNT. one of the most popular theories was its because Savage left for WCW.even without all the evidence to the contrary that wouldnt be enough to fuel Vinnies furnace for 17 years. but heres why it wasnt. Savage wanted to be a top level performer and felt he had heaps left to offer-Vince however didnt see Savage fitting in to his New Generation movement......... Savages contract expired at the end of Oct 94.Vince KNEW he was going and gave him an on air farewell at the Nov 7 .Raw. so I think we can rule out Savage signing with WCW as the reason. It's weird that this, of all things, has remained such a mystery in the wrestling business in light of how much dirt doesn't stay quiet. Even Savage's peers seem undecided on the true reason. Roddy Piper says it's because Savage slapped McMahon at a bar one time, but nobody else has confirmed that (and Piper, while he means well, has sometimes remembered details of his own career wrong, so I'm not sure I trust him on this one 100%). Bret Hart says that before he (Bret) left for WCW, he heard Savage called up Vince McMahon at an ungodly hour, drunk, and chewed him out over the phone. Bret said he asked Savage about that when he got to WCW and Savage seemed stunned, and said nothing of the sort ever happened. Whatever it was, it happened a long time after Savage left the WWF for WCW, because for years Vince McMahon claimed Savage left on good terms and was openly talking about how he would be welcomed back at any time. Then at some point in the past 10-13 years or so, something changed Vince's mind. I'll mention the Stephanie rumor too, since it's a popular one, but I personally don't believe it at all. |
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Post by theimmortal on May 26, 2011 19:54:39 GMT -5
I still think it was Hogan. Notice Hogan was always on good terms with the WWE after Savage had left. Almost the second Hogan starts bashing WWE and McMahon, Savage is right back in the WWE spotlight.
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threehgame
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Post by threehgame on May 26, 2011 20:02:29 GMT -5
I heard Savage and Vince were in contract talks around 95/96 to come back to WWF, and as said Vince told Savage he was always welcome back. Around the same time Vince said Hogan would never be welcomed back.
The only reason the Stephanie (or any woman important to Vince) rumor sounds true is that whatever happened would have to be big for Vince to welcome Hogan back time and time again while he continued to shun Savage.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 6:13:18 GMT -5
what makes me think it was something deep was Flairs reaction when he was asked on his shoot.Flair shook his head wildly and said there was no way he was talking about that......
then you have to look at Bischoff......Vince welcomed Bischoff into the fold-the man who tried to destroy him.so it isnt something in the business end of it IMO.
I also dont believe Hogan had anything to do with it.both Nash and Hall say Savage was never considered for the nWo reunion in 2002 because he had aged so badly and was pretty broken down.
Its hard to know.I also dont believe the Stephanie thing although it would explain the hate.
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Post by K5 on May 27, 2011 8:59:59 GMT -5
wasn't stephanie like, 14 at the time? i mean, i know randy missed elizabeth, but jeeze..
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on May 27, 2011 11:32:26 GMT -5
Total speculation (like most of this is), but maybe it's Stephanie-related but not as scandalous as people think it is. Maybe Savage just went into one of his insane rants and said the wrong thing about her, but didn't actually DO anything with her.
I'd imagine calling Stephanie the wrong name could potentially lead to a long-term blackballing from the WWE. Wouldn't necessarily have to be a physical misdeed.
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threehgame
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Post by threehgame on May 27, 2011 12:11:32 GMT -5
Total speculation (like most of this is), but maybe it's Stephanie-related but not as scandalous as people think it is. Maybe Savage just went into one of his insane rants and said the wrong thing about her, but didn't actually DO anything with her. I'd imagine calling Stephanie the wrong name could potentially lead to a long-term blackballing from the WWE. Wouldn't necessarily have to be a physical misdeed. That's what I figured it was. Either Savage said something to someone in WCW about Stephanie or Linda and it got back to Vince and he was pissed. |
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Post by mikey1974 on May 27, 2011 12:34:11 GMT -5
whatever it was,it had to be BAD,like,super-God fire BAD !
only 4 people have ever been officially "blackballed" by Vince in the history of the WWE...
Madusa Micelli/ Alundra Blaze : for leaving with the WWF Women's Championship Belt and throwing it in the trash on live TV.
Lex Luger : for agreeing to a handshake deal with Vince ,then turning around an resigning with WCW just a couple days later. Even this transgression has softened a bit,as Vince has had no problem with Luger going to the HOF this year.
Jeff Jarrett: for refusing to drop the IC Title to Chyna in 1999 unless he got a payoff....blackballed for life by creating TNA.
Randy Savage: for unknown reasons.
Hogan,Flair,Nash,Hall,Waltman,Dibiase,Scott Steiner, etc. had all left at various points for WCW,and all had been brought back to the WWE at some point in some capacity ,so it's not just going to WCW that did it....it's got to be something on a personal level,something that made Vince feel personally "betrayed" by the person...
i mean,Christ, Vince let the Warrior come back after he refused to wrestle unless he got a huge payoff,then again after he got busted for drugs...even now,after his last tour in the WWE ended with him no-showing several cards, Vince is still willing enough to let UW in the HOF if they can ever agree to terms...
so Savage had to have done something SERIOUSLY bad in Vince's eyes to be blackballed for so long...
i remember hearing a story (mind you,it's a story,no idea if it's true or not) that at a production meeting a few years ago someone brought up the idea of bringing in Savage for an angle od some type,and Vince looked up from his papers, looked over the rims of his glasses at the person,and said very tersely " I don't wish to discuss that!" ,then went back to his work...
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bc - RockAFire Style
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Post by bc - RockAFire Style on May 27, 2011 13:08:18 GMT -5
This was filmed in late 2000. This completely blows a hole in the Stephanie theory simply because Randy wouldn't have said he wants to go back to the WWF if he had been busted bangin the boss' daughter.
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Raine
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Post by Raine on May 27, 2011 14:33:52 GMT -5
Kevin 'Nailz' Kelly
Chris Benoit
Chyna
They have also been blackballed by the WWF/E
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on May 27, 2011 15:01:49 GMT -5
Kevin 'Nailz' Kelly Chris Benoit Chyna They have also been blackballed by the WWF/E You're 100% right about Nailz. You don't assault the boss over a payout, sue him for attempted sexual assault, give wild testimony against him in his steroid trial, and get welcomed back! Benoit was posthumously banned but still occasionally pops up in the background on a DVD or WWE Classics on Demand video. Chyna's probably not banned per se, but might as well be, because I'm sure bringing her back would be awkward to the point where it is never considered for longer than one second. Keep in mind, too, that the level of stardom makes a difference. If Vince McMahon knows a wrestler would be good for business, he's more willing to turn the other cheek than he would for, say, a midcarder like Nailz that virtually nobody misses. |
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Post by mikey1974 on May 27, 2011 15:43:26 GMT -5
forgot about Nailz!! LOL!!!
Chyna....honestly,if there was a buck to be made,and HHH,Stephanie,and her could get along for the sake of business,i think Vince would bring her back on at least a temporary basis...
i don't count Benoit,as he would'nt be blackballed if he hadn't killed his family...and considering he's dead,he's not so much blackballed as just "erased"...
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HuskerTornado
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Post by HuskerTornado on May 27, 2011 16:57:58 GMT -5
i mean,Christ, Vince let the Warrior come back after he refused to wrestle unless he got a huge payoff,then again after he got busted for drugs...even now,after his last tour in the WWE ended with him no-showing several cards, Vince is still willing enough to let UW in the HOF if they can ever agree to terms... First, let me say that Hogan held up Vince more times before going on than anyone else (multiple shoots will talk about this). He also threatened to quit dozens of times over his career to get what he wanted. One of the stories I've been told about the Summer Slam thing was that Warrior was talking to Hogan and felt he should get the same pay as him. Hogan told him to tell that to Vince, Warrior then asked for the pay increase, Vince was pissed, talked to Hogan and Hogan said "I'd fire him". Stuff like this falls in line with things I've heard about Hogan helping to blackball Savage over the years as well. Is that how it really happened? Only a few know for sure. The drug thing was completely bogus. Warrior and Davey Boy were scapegoats to get heat off McMahon's back. I know the Self-Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior dvd will try and make you believe otherwise, but 95% of that dvd is revisionist history and untruths. Vince is almost always willing to bring guys back that were moneymakers, which is why the Savage issue is so mysterious. But, he is also known to hold some grudges as well, with this being one of them. We'll probably never know the true story, or which rumor is possibly the truth. I don't believe the Stephanie rumors for a second. If it were true, I'm not sure Vince would have kept it so secret (even as a father trying to keep the perception of your daughter's purity), Savage would have had charges pressed against him, and he wouldn't have worked anywhere in the business again. The rest of the rumors just don't seem to be major enough to cause a grudge for the rest of their lives, but, Vince does have one of the biggest egos on the planet, so a certain shot to that one way or another (no matter how minor it may seem) could have caused it, I suppose. |
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Post by Rule 30 on May 27, 2011 17:22:04 GMT -5
Total speculation (like most of this is), but maybe it's Stephanie-related but not as scandalous as people think it is. Maybe Savage just went into one of his insane rants and said the wrong thing about her, but didn't actually DO anything with her. I'd imagine calling Stephanie the wrong name could potentially lead to a long-term blackballing from the WWE. Wouldn't necessarily have to be a physical misdeed. That seems more likely, I mean, obviously Vince doesn't hold business grudges. EDIT: Perhaps the dust will be settled in the Time Magazine article? |
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Post by mikey1974 on May 27, 2011 17:34:26 GMT -5
i doubt it...at best,you'll get a gloss-over... " Sadly,Randy never again performed in WWE due to some irreconcilable differences."
something like that...
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Post by tnafan17: The Total Package on May 27, 2011 20:59:56 GMT -5
I've always wanted to hear these rumors thanks for starting this thread Joker. Some crazy stories for sure.
BTW, what shoots have ever stated Hogan standing up Vince for money?
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Post by mikey1974 on May 28, 2011 7:01:08 GMT -5
I've always wanted to hear these rumors thanks for starting this thread Joker. Some crazy stories for sure. BTW, what shoots have ever stated Hogan standing up Vince for money? yeah,honestly i never heard of Hogan doing that before... not saying it's untrue,just saying it's the first i've heard of it....political maneuvering? sure....refusing to job out? definitely....changing finishes and/or angles to suit him? Yes! but i never heard of him holding up a match until he got his money before... |
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Post by marino13 on May 28, 2011 8:33:29 GMT -5
I fully believe the Stephanie rumors are B.S. I'm sure it was started by some idiot on the web and it just caught on. And judging from that shoot, it's obviously wasn't even a factor on Savage's mind when asked about a WWE return.
And if there was anything to the rumor, there is no way we'd have Savage figures & he wouldn't in video games. I even doubt they would mention how great the Steamboat & Savage match was if Randy had done anything to Steph. He'd be as erased as much as Benoit is.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2011 8:40:09 GMT -5
I've always wanted to hear these rumors thanks for starting this thread Joker. Some crazy stories for sure. BTW, what shoots have ever stated Hogan standing up Vince for money? NEVER heard this and I dont believe it. Hogan was WAAAAY too savvy business wise to leave anything for the last minute like that-especially money. now maybe something like this happened post 2002 but I doubt it happened from 84-93. |
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