Something I don't get about Wrestlemania VII crowd

[Deleted]

So there's two stories behind WWE switching from the LA Coliseum to the LA Arena - the death threat story and the low ticket sale story.

Either way, WWE admits on the True Story of Wrestlemania DVD that only about 17,000 tickets had been sold when they made the decision to switch venues.

The thing I don't get is why were these numbers so low in the first place?

First off, even in the dark days of 1995-1997, Wrestlemania has managed to draw huge crowds, even when other PPVs could only manage low attendance. Look at the crowds for 11, 12 and 13, they weren't stadiums by any stretch of the imagination, but they were decent numbers.

Secondly, WWF was still pretty hot at the time, with Hogan, Warrior and Savage all household names. The excuse of the weak main event or the poor card doesn't make sense because the card really wasn't any worse than VI, which only had a hot main event and an average undercard. VII had the career ending match, Harts vs Nasties, Taker vs Snuka, the hot Jake/Martel feud, etc.

Thirdly, the two Manias that bookend VII both drew enormous crowds. I believe VI drew 60,000+ in Toronto, and VIII drew almost 70,000 in Indiana. So it makes no sense to me that those huge crowds would come for 6 and 8, and yet only 17,000 were interested in 7.

Something really doesn't add up to me.

[hbkjason]

You make some very good points WM VII is one of my all time favorite events I was so into the Warrior vs Savage feud at the time it was awesome. I remember it was on kind of late here in the UK (back in the days when the WWE PPV's were on Sky Movies lol) and my parents said I could only stay up ultill the Warrior vs Savage match as it was a school night but they caved and let me stay up for the whole show lol.


I get what you mean about the ticket sales despie what people will say about it when looking back now at the time Hogan vs Slaughter was huge the WWE kind of turned away (not all the way) from the gulf war thing and made it more about just Hogan vs Slaughter than USA vs Iraq. Add to that Warrior vs Savage Robberts vs Martel Nastys vs Harts and the very very under rated Dibiase vs Virgil feud the card really was stacked. There must be more to this story that has been told.

[Raine]

Don't quote me but I pretty sure I read that fans & sponsors were really offended by the WWF using the Iraq war and Iraqi sympathiser (Slaughter) storyline which I think it just made people turn off. It started really aound Survivor Series 90 the Iraq storyline as I remember Piper putting the bad mouth on Sarge during the PPV on commentary.

Another reason could be that the 12 months before WM7, the Ultimate Warrior became champ but never drew as a champion like Hogan did. Probably because he never really had any big feuds as champion the way Hogan did so people could never get into him. Thats why Warrior has always been viewed as a flop champ and was never given the title again.

Just a thought...

[Deleted]

this has always interested me too-glad to see Im not the only one.

its a strange one and I agree theres more to this than meets the eye

[HuskerTornado]

Apr 12, 2011 15:04:13 GMT -5 Raine said:

Another reason could be that the 12 months before WM7, the Ultimate Warrior became champ but never drew as a champion like Hogan did. Probably because he never really had any big feuds as champion the way Hogan did so people could never get into him. Thats why Warrior has always been viewed as a flop champ and was never given the title again.

Just a thought...

Warrior is only viewed as a flop champ by revisionist historians that want to make him look bad. I went to a few events when Warrior was champ, every house was jammed to the rafters and the roof blew off the building when that music hit. The official ticket sales numbers that are available aren't really any different from 89 when Hogan was champ (had sellouts in certain areas, lower ticket sales in others).

Too many people buy 100% into that Self Destruction dvd and have this belief that Warrior was this egotistical psycho. I'd recommend all of those people watch Warrior's shoot interview with Ringside Collectibles, and watch for his book the next year or two (hopefully). Almost every accusation made on that Self Destruction dvd just didn't add up. If I pop that dvd in over the next week or so I'll point out some specifics.

Ultimately, you can blame a good chunk of the problems regarding Wrestlemania VII on Hulk Hogan and Sgt Slaughter. He wanted the belt back in August 1990 and wanted to have a feud with Slaughter, who had been retired up until this point. Even back in 1991, Slaughter was about as legit looking as WWF Champ as Bastian Booger would have been in 1995. The idea that an out of shape 43 year old Slaughter could "beat" the Ultimate Warrior was a joke back then.

The decision to have Warrior feud with Savage was brilliant, as every match they worked together was great, especially the 2 PPVs. But in my opinion, they went about it the wrong way (yeah Savage suffered a broken wrist in mid-1990, which Slaughter will tell you is why he got the title, but really that makes little sense since Savage was back in time for Mania). There were a number of ways to get the heat up between them without having Savage cost Warrior the title at the 91 Rumble, but like I said, Hogan wanted the belt back, he wanted the attention again (this is also why he got the big feud in the second half of 1990, Earthquake, and not Warrior), and because he was Hulk Hogan, he got what he wanted (Same thing how he took the spotlight away from Savage in 88/9 and then away from Yokozuna and Bret Hart in 93). For as great as Hogan was (we wouldn't have had the last 27+ years we had without what he did for the business), he also held it back on a few occasions.

Also keep in mind that the First Gulf War ended officially in February of 91, and really, it was over well before that. By the time Wrestlemania came around, it was done and over with. Not to mention the fact that the outcome was overly predictable. If you didn't know it was scripted (if you were a kid), you knew that Hogan had faced bigger, tougher, stronger, younger, better wrestlers in the past and beat them, so Slaughter should pose no challenge. If you knew it was a work, then you knew it made zero sense for Slaughter to win since the real war was over. The fact that they stretched that feud out through Summer Slam as well, with the Warrior/Hogan vs. Slaughter/Sheik/Adnon tag match which was just goofy (this should have been a Warrior/Undertaker main event...but that was house shows only feud, while Hogan got Taker in Survivor Series, lost to him, then won it back 2 days later in Tuesday in Texas...).

Of course, Slaughter was receiving death threats, and apparently McMahon was as well, which was probably the main reason attributed to moving the event indoors. It wasn't as if WWF was wildly popular in 1990 and 1992, but not in 1991. I've still got my old Wrestlemania VII metal pins that they gave away at house shows in 1990 that have the LA Coliseum advertised on them.

[Raine]

Very insightful info there HuskerTornado, I didn't know half of that especially that Savage could have possibly got the belt instead of Sarge. I always wondered why Savage never wrestled on a PPV after Summerslam 90 til WM7, even though he was at both Survivors 90 & RR '91, but it was because of a broken wrist.

Don't sound much like Hulk to wanting to hog the spotlight though lol

[Deleted]

great post Husker Tornado.

I dont buy 100% into the Self Destruction DVD either but I have watched a lot of shoots and theres very few guys have anything good to say about Warrior.

but your right this wasnt his fault-Hogan did hog the spotlight at SS90-Warrior vs Rude was NOT what people bought that event for-it was Hogan vs Earthquake.

now Erathquake attacking Warrior and him coming back to get his revenge would have been epic.

[Burger Lad]

Apr 12, 2011 7:35:11 GMT -5 hbkjason said:

You make some very good points WM VII is one of my all time favorite events I was so into the Warrior vs Savage feud at the time it was awesome. I remember it was on kind of late here in the UK (back in the days when the WWE PPV's were on Sky Movies lol) and my parents said I could only stay up ultill the Warrior vs Savage match as it was a school night but they caved and let me stay up for the whole show lol.

Ha ha - me too! I think I went to bed just before Hogan vs. Slaughter - those were the days. 1,000th post!

[Deleted]

hahaha so many great things to address in this thread:

1 - hbkjason and wwfhasbrofan - I was the same! We'd get the PPVs on Sky Movies a few days later, with commercial breaks after every match. It wasn't until I saw Wrestlemania 7 years later in the DVD boxset that I realized just how many promos and interviews had been cut out by Sky for their ads. Booo!

2 - HuskerTonardo - great post. I remember all that stuff too. Between Hogan's return, Warrior's firing and Savage's storyline retirement, a lot of stuff got shifted around that year with a lot of unresolved feuds (at least on TV) such as Jake-Earthquake, Jake-Warrior, Warrior-Undertaker, etc.

I'm also with you on some of the stuff in the WWE Warrior DVD. He gets blasted for the most ridiculous things:

- everyone mocks him for having the gimmick hometown of "Parts Unknown", but tons of wrestlers have used it - Demolition, Kane, Warlord, Barbarian, Zeus, etc. Not to mention the countless others with gimmick hometowns like Dudleyville, Death Valley, Deepest Darkest Africa, The Bottmless Pit, etc.

- nonsensical interviews. Anyone who watched wrestling in Warrior's time will know that he wasn't the only one making promos like that. Just go to youtube and look up guys like Snuka and the Sheik. And hogan himself came out with some bizarre stuff about stealing Eve from the Garden of Eden to train on the deck of the Titanic with her!

- limited wrestling ability. Cough, cough - Hogan? Andre? Beefcake? Jake?

Definitely a lot of hypocritical BS on that thing.

[mikey1974]

yeah,Warrior got a raw deal,to say the least,thanks to Hogan....

being alive,and a huge fan at that time, Warrior was INSANELY over! hell,he was before he won the world belt,as IC Champ....

part of the problem was indeed Hogan refusing to take a backseat,just like he did with Savage (Savage NEVER had a PPV main event match to himself after he won the belt - Hogan was there for every one)....

the other part was he was booked to fail...he was the Champ,but he only,really,had 2 feud's during that time - Rick Rude (which i was fine with and made sense,as Rude beat him before,so of course he wanted a shot to beat him again) ,and Randy Savagemwhich went from Nov. 1990 up til he lost the title,then to WM 7....he spent a lot of that time in tag matches wit hthe LOD versus the 3-Man Demolition team, or teaming with the Texas Tornado against Mr. Perfect and various partners....he had no real feud's that helped elevate him or made him look good,and became a bit of a glorified tag team wrestler during his reign....even Slaughter,there really was no feud there,they just kinda threw him out there as the #1 contender at the Rumble,with minimal build-up...

so,yeah,Warrior could've succeeded,had Vince and management got behind him and pused him as hard as ever...instead,he was kind of just thrown out there on his own to sink or swim....

hell,Hogan himslef said in his book that he didn't think that Warriro beating him for the belt was the right thing to do!

[Burger Lad]

One of my favourite eras definitely. I was lucky enough to see the Warrior live vs. Undertaker at Wembley Arena during a UK Rampage tour.

Also on the card that night was:

Demolition vs. Hart Foundation (!!)
Mr. Perfect vs. British Bulldog
Earthquake vs. Greg Valentine (I think)
Jim Duggan vs. Barbarian

I can't remember who else.

I first got into WWF around October 1990 (aged 11) and remember the intro of Superstars and it had this barren landscape and lightening everywhere with the Warrior wearing the belt. I was instantly hooked!

[Raine]

Seems most of us guys on this topic are around the same age (I was almost 10 when WM7 aired on Sky Movies) and we all seem to have good knowledge on early 90's WWF. Good to know :-)
wwfhasbrofan I remember that beginning, cos it was still on Superstars even after Sarge had won the belt all the way to WM7.

Your right about Hogan he stole all of Savage's thunder in 88/89 as he was always in the main event on PPV although wasn't champ. Then in 90 we had double main event at Summerslam and then the Ultimate Survivor match with Warrior and yep you've guessed it Hogan celebrating at the end at Survivors 90.

Going back to Warrior, as said his feuds were a floundering Rude, mid card Hennig and 3rd man helping LOD against Demo's. If he had been given Savage straight after WM6 at least until Summerslam '90, I think would have made him a better champ, Savage was only in a mid card feud with Dusty after WM6 anyway. Dibiase would also have made a solid challenger as an alternative to the Macho King.

Survivors 90 sums it up best as LOD were feuding with Demolition & Hennig with Tornado but Warrior was captain of a team with no really major opposition captain. Would have been better if Savage were team captain with Perfect, Smash & Crush (Ax got squashed anyway) I know Savage was injured but could have just done a runner when it came down to him & Warrior this would have built tension at start of their feud as they were yet to make contact.

[Deleted]

We had just got hooked up with SKY (which was still kinda rare around the time) and I was channel surfing one day and stumbled on Royal Rumble '91. I grew up as a huge superhero fan - He-Man, Thundercats, Batman, etc, and there I see this real life superhero - Ultimate Warrior. Blonde hair, huge physique, USA colors, he looked like he'd stepped off the pages of a comic book. to quote wwfhasbrofan, I was "instantly hooked".

Of course, as a ten year old, I thought I was watching a legit competitive match and couldn't believe it when Macho King interfered and the older, balder, fatter Sgt Slaughter walked away with the championship. After that, I couldn't wait to catch the next show and see if the huge muscular guy would get his revenge.

1990-1992 really was a special time in England to be a WWF fan.

wwfhasbrofan, I even remember getting my first ever figures. My mum took me to Children's World in Aintree (Liverpool) and I got Ultimate Warrior (green trunks) and Hulk Hogan (powerslam) for £5.10 each LOL.

Sticker Albums, Hasbro figures, Prime Time Wrestling on Eurosport, staying up late to watch The Main Event, those were the days...



And, Raine - awesome points about Warrior. They could've done so much more.

[PVA]

We got off topic a bit but I agree Warrior get's an incredibly raw deal from the IWC and people in the business. Not saying Warrior is a saint but much of the locker room didnt like him was because he was independent and not addicted to the business like them and they were jealous? he got so over and the spotlight and $$ other guys wanted, then you had Hogan afraid someone will steal his top spot as he never truly stepped aside for Savage or Warrior,etc to shine as champ.

Back to the original topic, this attendance issue feels like we are being told everything. My guess is that the Gulf war turned a lot of people off and perhaps parents disapproved of letting their kids watch such "filth"

Like everyone else I was a big fan at this time and 7 yrs old or so and while I didn't see the ppv live, I remember going to school dying to know who won the warrior/savage match.

Wrestlemania VII holds up pretty well today and is one of my favorites.
-Hot opener (rockers/barbarian/haku)
-very good tag match in nastys/harts
-the blindfold match was a hot fued and stipulation made sense and i think the match was pulled off as good as you could. Gets a bad rap because not great for repeated viewing.
-Savage/Warrior was a classic from the build up to match to the post match reunion
- Perfect/Bossman and Dibiase/Virgil were red hot feuds at the time that provided decent matches that could of been more memorable had they gotten more time and/or a clean winner.
- Slaughter/ Hogan was actually a very good match, especially considering the participants and that everyone knew hogan was winning.

I think WMVII is much better then VI and I'd argue just as good if not a tad bit better then VIII (tough call)

[Deleted]

I'd also throw in Bulldog-Warlord as a fun little powerhouse match, and Nasties-Harts was pretty entertaining also.

By the way, I've never heard this mentioned on the net before, but I think the ending to Dibiase-Virgil is absolutely epic. To think it all started because Piper philosophically told Virgil to "get up" - stop being the slave of another man, have some dignity, etc - and Virgil listened to him and became his own man.

Fast forward to the end of the Mania match, and Piper has been assaulted and humiliated after Sherri and Dibiase attacked him. Unable to stand, Virgil takes the mic and tells Piper, "Do what you told me - get up." Piper struggles to get to his feet alone, and just as he does and is about to fall, Virgil catches him.

It's moments like that that I love in Wrestling. Between that, the image of Macho and Elizabeth hugging, and a bloodied Hogan waving the American flag to close the show, it's a really emotional Mania.

EDIT: Go to 10:25, how can any man not be moved by this!

[Raine]

IMAW - Awesome add, really takes me back that Superstars opening.

Your right 90- 92 was so exciting as a wrestling fan in the UK as it was all new really (suppose I were used to noon on a saturday Big Daddy dire matches) not these larger than life characters. I remember going into my local Woolworths on a saturday morning with my mother and they had just had in series 1 Hasbro WWF figs and my mam said I could have one, so difficult to choose I just want all 9, settled for Andre in the end. (I already had Hulk, Warrior & Akeem)

I know this was originally a WM7 thread but its turned in to a reminiscent thread of early 90's WWF, I think its great.

[mikey1974]

indeed,and i,personally,think that's something missing from today's WWE - genuine emotion,both from the particiapnts and the fans....everything feels manufactured....

i was pissed at the Warrior situation because he was my favorite wrestler at the time (though he would be supplanted firmly in late 1991 by Undertaker,who was my # 2 after his debut,but after Warrior left he became #1 and stayed there)....and i really felt like he got screwed over...also cute how they wrote into the storyline how after WM 6 due to the epic nature of the match and toll it took on both participants,there would never be a rematch sanctioned between Warrior and Hogan...part of me wonders if that was a Hogan idea pitched to Vince, that way ensuring warrior would be out of the spotlight once hogan regained the belt at some point...

that summer of 1990 was a great time to be a wrestling fan,and for me,personally,as my favorite singles wrestler AND Tag Team (Demolition) were both the champs,and i loved Perfect,too,so it was like the Ultimate Trifecta for me!!

IMAW!! man,i remember getting the Hasbro's too! i didn't even know they existed! back then there was no internet,no toy magazine's like Toyfare or Lee's ...and 1 day i walked into K-B Toys here in town and there they were! i walked out with Ax and Smash,and i was hooked! (Sadly,Warrior was already sold out) LOL! i was 16...other kids were worried about getting their driver's licences and getting laid! i was worried about WWF toys!!

from like 1987 til late 1992 the WWF was red-hot in my book...after that,well....a BAD couple of years...

[PVA]

Yeah, I think people who just go back and watch the matches that didn't follow it then and don't know the storylines, don't fully appreciate moments like that.

The filler on WM VII was short and inoffensive, if not entertaining.

[Burger Lad]

That youtube video of Warrior brings back some memories! Thanks for posting

[mikey1974]

Apr 13, 2011 14:02:35 GMT -5 PVA said:

Yeah, I think people who just go back and watch the matches that didn't follow it then and don't know the storylines, don't fully appreciate moments like that.

The filler on WM VII was short and inoffensive, if not entertaining.

100% agreed!

back then,they knew how to do angles and storylines right! none of this 1-2 months at best ADD shit! the Jake Roberts-Rick Martel angle went on from like October til March,til the WM payoff match....Macho first challeneged Warrior for the WWF Championship in November,and the feud wasn't settled til WM 7....the Nasty Boys won a battle royal to determine the #1 contenders to the Hart Foundation's Tag Titles at WM 7, eliminating the LOD via cheating,which would begin the slow build and feud over the whole summer of 1991 to the payoff match of LOD vs the Nasty's at SummerSlam 1991.... they took their time and built up emotionally resonating storylines and angles...