Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
Main Eventer
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Joined on: Jul 25, 2005 17:12:49 GMT -5
Posts: 3,209
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Dec 3, 2010 15:54:17 GMT -5
oh really Austin and Rock ah? Ratings were sinking like the titanic with those two in 2001 That's a little bit misleading. Ratings may have been shrinking, but they were shrinking from an era when they were the highest they had ever been. And once that started, with the exception of a small bump here or there, no wrestler -- not even the returning Hulk Hogan -- was able to completely reverse the trend. You make it sound like Austin and the Rock were tanking in the ratings. The only thing they were failing to do is match the record-breaking success of that era... an achievement they had a huge role in creating. You can't blame them for tanking ratings without recognizing that they're the ones that set the bar that high to begin with. In essence, that's blaming two of the industry's biggest stars for not being able to match their own success, when nobody else ever could, either. |
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 6, 2010 1:49:12 GMT -5
oh really Austin and Rock ah? Ratings were sinking like the titanic with those two in 2001 That's a little bit misleading. Ratings may have been shrinking, but they were shrinking from an era when they were the highest they had ever been. And once that started, with the exception of a small bump here or there, no wrestler -- not even the returning Hulk Hogan -- was able to completely reverse the trend. You make it sound like Austin and the Rock were tanking in the ratings. The only thing they were failing to do is match the record-breaking success of that era... an achievement they had a huge role in creating. You can't blame them for tanking ratings without recognizing that they're the ones that set the bar that high to begin with. In essence, that's blaming two of the industry's biggest stars for not being able to match their own success, when nobody else ever could, either. I don't think pro wrestling ever returns to those kind of ratings again. The late 90s had a wealth of starpower (in both feds) and innovation that won't be reproduced. |
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Dec 7, 2010 0:38:29 GMT -5
oh really Austin and Rock ah? Ratings were sinking like the titanic with those two in 2001 That's a little bit misleading. Ratings may have been shrinking, but they were shrinking from an era when they were the highest they had ever been. And once that started, with the exception of a small bump here or there, no wrestler -- not even the returning Hulk Hogan -- was able to completely reverse the trend. You make it sound like Austin and the Rock were tanking in the ratings. The only thing they were failing to do is match the record-breaking success of that era... an achievement they had a huge role in creating. You can't blame them for tanking ratings without recognizing that they're the ones that set the bar that high to begin with. In essence, that's blaming two of the industry's biggest stars for not being able to match their own success, when nobody else ever could, either. Those ratings you are talking about are pertaining to cable and they are not the highest ratings WWF/WWE has ever seen look at the numbers they were doing on NBC! Now imagine if cable and satellite had been as big and expanded in the 80s as it is now? Hulk vs Andre buy rates would have destroyed anything WWE has put out in the last 15 years look at these numbers en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night%27s_Main_EventSaturday Night's Main Event was a tremendous ratings success for NBC during its heyday, most notably on the March 14, 1987 show, which drew an 11.6 rating, which to this day remains the highest rating any show has ever done in that time slot. That show was headlined by a battle royal featuring Hulk Hogan and André the Giant, who were slated to face each other at WrestleMania III The success of Saturday Night's Main Event led to several Friday night prime time specials, known as The Main Event. The first of these, on February 5, 1988 featured a WrestleMania III rematch between Hogan and André and drew 33 million viewers and a 15.2 rating, which is still the highest-rated television show in professional wrestling history. 33 million viewers folks that is unreal! and I am not ragging on The Rock and Austin they were the victim of Monday Night Wars that lead to everyone being overexposed way faster than previous stars |
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Post by K5 on Dec 7, 2010 2:41:36 GMT -5
That's a little bit misleading. Ratings may have been shrinking, but they were shrinking from an era when they were the highest they had ever been. And once that started, with the exception of a small bump here or there, no wrestler -- not even the returning Hulk Hogan -- was able to completely reverse the trend. You make it sound like Austin and the Rock were tanking in the ratings. The only thing they were failing to do is match the record-breaking success of that era... an achievement they had a huge role in creating. You can't blame them for tanking ratings without recognizing that they're the ones that set the bar that high to begin with. In essence, that's blaming two of the industry's biggest stars for not being able to match their own success, when nobody else ever could, either. I don't think pro wrestling ever returns to those kind of ratings again. The late 90s had a wealth of starpower (in both feds) and innovation that won't be reproduced. perhaps that is most likely, however wrestling has a way of reattaching itself to society and making it relative to people's lives/dreams...hulk hogan was larger than life, steve austin was the working man's champion, the rock was larger than life again...i almost felt john cena could have been the modern stone cold before they took the super hero hulk hogan route with him. i'm sure after hulk and modernized pro wrestling's first decline many thought they'd seen the end. |
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 7, 2010 5:39:34 GMT -5
I don't think pro wrestling ever returns to those kind of ratings again. The late 90s had a wealth of starpower (in both feds) and innovation that won't be reproduced. perhaps that is most likely, however wrestling has a way of reattaching itself to society and making it relative to people's lives/dreams...hulk hogan was larger than life, steve austin was the working man's champion, the rock was larger than life again...i almost felt john cena could have been the modern stone cold before they took the super hero hulk hogan route with him. i'm sure after hulk and modernized pro wrestling's first decline many thought they'd seen the end. I don't think wrestling will ever end but the entertainment world will make it very hard for wrestling to duplicate the ratings it had 11-12 years ago. Every few years, it seems that there are more channels and entertainment options available. Can wrestling ever capture the across-the-board appeal that it had in '96-'99? That seems tough. |
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Dec 8, 2010 16:39:10 GMT -5
perhaps that is most likely, however wrestling has a way of reattaching itself to society and making it relative to people's lives/dreams...hulk hogan was larger than life, steve austin was the working man's champion, the rock was larger than life again...i almost felt john cena could have been the modern stone cold before they took the super hero hulk hogan route with him. i'm sure after hulk and modernized pro wrestling's first decline many thought they'd seen the end. I don't think wrestling will ever end but the entertainment world will make it very hard for wrestling to duplicate the ratings it had 11-12 years ago. Every few years, it seems that there are more channels and entertainment options available. Can wrestling ever capture the across-the-board appeal that it had in '96-'99? That seems tough. yes but was the 96-99 boom any bigger than the 84 to 89 boom? seems to me WWF and WCW were competing for the same audience neither company were drawing TV numbers that WWF did on NBC in the 80s |
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Post by carly1988 on Dec 8, 2010 20:51:19 GMT -5
I don't think wrestling will ever end but the entertainment world will make it very hard for wrestling to duplicate the ratings it had 11-12 years ago. Every few years, it seems that there are more channels and entertainment options available. Can wrestling ever capture the across-the-board appeal that it had in '96-'99? That seems tough. yes but was the 96-99 boom any bigger than the 84 to 89 boom? seems to me WWF and WCW were competing for the same audience neither company were drawing TV numbers that WWF did on NBC in the 80s I think the Golden Era boom had a longer affect then the MNW era. Simply put before the Golden Era wrestling was very territorial. Golden Era brought it to a National Level. The MNW era elevated the national level higher but it didnt open any new doors. It was like adding syrup to ice cream. It gave it a little extra flavor but in the end the ice cream was just as good without it. |
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Dec 10, 2010 4:35:18 GMT -5
yes but was the 96-99 boom any bigger than the 84 to 89 boom? seems to me WWF and WCW were competing for the same audience neither company were drawing TV numbers that WWF did on NBC in the 80s I think the Golden Era boom had a longer affect then the MNW era. Simply put before the Golden Era wrestling was very territorial. Golden Era brought it to a National Level. The MNW era elevated the national level higher but it didnt open any new doors. It was like adding syrup to ice cream. It gave it a little extra flavor but in the end the ice cream was just as good without it. Good analogy you got there makes a lot of sense  |
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 12, 2010 0:25:32 GMT -5
yes but was the 96-99 boom any bigger than the 84 to 89 boom? seems to me WWF and WCW were competing for the same audience neither company were drawing TV numbers that WWF did on NBC in the 80s I think the Golden Era boom had a longer affect then the MNW era. Simply put before the Golden Era wrestling was very territorial. Golden Era brought it to a National Level. The MNW era elevated the national level higher but it didnt open any new doors. . I think it opened a floodgate of marketing. As a kid in the mid-80s, I tried to find all the wrestling stuff that I could. There were always LJN figs, of course, but trying to find clothing and VHS tapes wasn't easy. Some of the bigger cities I visited would have a smattering of WWF ite,s, but that is about it. I had to order most things through the WWF catalog. In the late 90s, wrestling "grew up" so to speak and wrestling gear, DVDs, bumper stickers, etc..was oozing out of every store, even if it wasn't a kid-friendly place. I also remember RAW/Nitro being advertised on the big screens of local bars in the late 90s. Though I don't exactly remember, I doubt that was the case in the mid 80s. Wrestling's popularity in the late 90s was just out-of-control. |
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Dec 13, 2010 1:09:17 GMT -5
I think the Golden Era boom had a longer affect then the MNW era. Simply put before the Golden Era wrestling was very territorial. Golden Era brought it to a National Level. The MNW era elevated the national level higher but it didnt open any new doors. . I think it opened a floodgate of marketing. As a kid in the mid-80s, I tried to find all the wrestling stuff that I could. There were always LJN figs, of course, but trying to find clothing and VHS tapes wasn't easy. Some of the bigger cities I visited would have a smattering of WWF ite,s, but that is about it. I had to order most things through the WWF catalog. In the late 90s, wrestling "grew up" so to speak and wrestling gear, DVDs, bumper stickers, etc..was oozing out of every store, even if it wasn't a kid-friendly place. I also remember RAW/Nitro being advertised on the big screens of local bars in the late 90s. Though I don't exactly remember, I doubt that was the case in the mid 80s. Wrestling's popularity in the late 90s was just out-of-control. both were hugely popular periods for wrestling I witnessed them both I attended matches in the 80s at the old Capitol Center and Baltimore arena and had no problem finding wrestling stuff like dolls, shirts at Sears and Toys R Us I remember getting my first Hulk Hogan poster from Spencers Gifts in 1985 |
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 13, 2010 5:11:22 GMT -5
I think it opened a floodgate of marketing. As a kid in the mid-80s, I tried to find all the wrestling stuff that I could. There were always LJN figs, of course, but trying to find clothing and VHS tapes wasn't easy. Some of the bigger cities I visited would have a smattering of WWF ite,s, but that is about it. I had to order most things through the WWF catalog. In the late 90s, wrestling "grew up" so to speak and wrestling gear, DVDs, bumper stickers, etc..was oozing out of every store, even if it wasn't a kid-friendly place. I also remember RAW/Nitro being advertised on the big screens of local bars in the late 90s. Though I don't exactly remember, I doubt that was the case in the mid 80s. Wrestling's popularity in the late 90s was just out-of-control. both were hugely popular periods for wrestling I witnessed them both I attended matches in the 80s at the old Capitol Center and Baltimore arena and had no problem finding wrestling stuff like dolls, shirts at Sears and Toys R Us I remember getting my first Hulk Hogan poster from Spencers Gifts in 1985 The dolls were there but most of what was available in the VHS/clothing areas was Hogan or Wrestlemania. I wanted a Road Warriors shirt in '86 but NWA (and most non-Hogan wrestler )stuff was no where to be found, even in hot bed spots like Roanoke or Richmond. I finally got a Warriors shirt at a NWA event. I left Virginia for a year and returned in early '99. I couldn't believe the amount of wrestling gear I saw in Roanoke and Richmond. It was 100X what I saw in the '80s. It wasn't just one wrestler either. I saw Austin, Rock, DX, NWO, Horsemen, Goldberg, Undertaker, Kane shirts virtually bleeding from every store. Even the toys, which might have been one section in the 80s, had entire aisles devoted to wrestling figs. Possibly the most telling experience I had was going into a Casual Male XL (Just known as "Big & Tall" in the '80s) that is solely a men's clothing shop. I had been shopping there almost exclusively for years and I had never seen a single wrestling-related item. Then I went in in the summer of '98 and my jaw dropped when I saw an entire rack of WWF/WCW clothes. |
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Post by K5 on Dec 13, 2010 16:52:14 GMT -5
it's true, the attitude era had a intellectually- disabled amount of merchandise. watch 'beyond the mat' and vince breaks it down how it's grown.
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Dec 13, 2010 23:30:27 GMT -5
both were hugely popular periods for wrestling I witnessed them both I attended matches in the 80s at the old Capitol Center and Baltimore arena and had no problem finding wrestling stuff like dolls, shirts at Sears and Toys R Us I remember getting my first Hulk Hogan poster from Spencers Gifts in 1985 The dolls were there but most of what was available in the VHS/clothing areas was Hogan or Wrestlemania. I wanted a Road Warriors shirt in '86 but NWA (and most non-Hogan wrestler )stuff was no where to be found, even in hot bed spots like Roanoke or Richmond. I finally got a Warriors shirt at a NWA event. I left Virginia for a year and returned in early '99. I couldn't believe the amount of wrestling gear I saw in Roanoke and Richmond. It was 100X what I saw in the '80s. It wasn't just one wrestler either. I saw Austin, Rock, DX, NWO, Horsemen, Goldberg, Undertaker, Kane shirts virtually bleeding from every store. Even the toys, which might have been one section in the 80s, had entire aisles devoted to wrestling figs. Possibly the most telling experience I had was going into a Casual Male XL (Just known as "Big & Tall" in the '80s) that is solely a men's clothing shop. I had been shopping there almost exclusively for years and I had never seen a single wrestling-related item. Then I went in in the summer of '98 and my jaw dropped when I saw an entire rack of WWF/WCW clothes. I grew up in Maryland and have always been a Hulk Hogan fan so his stuff was everywhere so I remember getting an alarm clock of his from Kmart WWF got more well rounded in the late 80s early 90s where you could find shirts, toys and novelty items on the Ultimate Warrior or Jake The Snake I dont really remember seeing anything on NWA until 1990 but yes late 90s both WWF and WCW had stuff everywhere |
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Joined on: Nov 17, 2024 7:44:02 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2010 23:47:26 GMT -5
in his Biography, Hogan settled it with Belzer. Belzer bought a big estate and I guess called it Chez Hogan. lol
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 14, 2010 0:41:36 GMT -5
The dolls were there but most of what was available in the VHS/clothing areas was Hogan or Wrestlemania. I wanted a Road Warriors shirt in '86 but NWA (and most non-Hogan wrestler )stuff was no where to be found, even in hot bed spots like Roanoke or Richmond. I finally got a Warriors shirt at a NWA event. I grew up in Maryland and have always been a Hulk Hogan fan so his stuff was everywhere so I remember getting an alarm clock of his from Kmart WWF got more well rounded in the late 80s early 90s where you could find shirts, toys and novelty items on the Ultimate Warrior or Jake The Snake I dont really remember seeing anything on NWA until 1990 but yes late 90s both WWF and WCW had stuff everywhere I had this awful looking Hogan shirt that was off-gray with a painted portrait design that I got from K-mart. I still wore it every chance I got. I also got one of the old "Hulk Rules" sleeveless Tees from the WWF catalog that had the ripped back like he wore. I kept that even after I began loathing Hulk. Despite its look, that shirt was durable and I continued to lift weights in it for a long time. |
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Post by carly1988 on Dec 14, 2010 8:55:39 GMT -5
I think the Golden Era boom had a longer affect then the MNW era. Simply put before the Golden Era wrestling was very territorial. Golden Era brought it to a National Level. The MNW era elevated the national level higher but it didnt open any new doors. . I think it opened a floodgate of marketing. As a kid in the mid-80s, I tried to find all the wrestling stuff that I could. There were always LJN figs, of course, but trying to find clothing and VHS tapes wasn't easy. Some of the bigger cities I visited would have a smattering of WWF ite,s, but that is about it. I had to order most things through the WWF catalog. In the late 90s, wrestling "grew up" so to speak and wrestling gear, DVDs, bumper stickers, etc..was oozing out of every store, even if it wasn't a kid-friendly place. I also remember RAW/Nitro being advertised on the big screens of local bars in the late 90s. Though I don't exactly remember, I doubt that was the case in the mid 80s. Wrestling's popularity in the late 90s was just out-of-control. I think the 90s opened up marketing for everything "sport" related though. As a Niners fan living in Tennessee the only way I could get anything Niners related was out of a JC Pennys christmas catalog. However, in the mid to late 90s sports apparel became much more apparent as Ive been able to go out and purchase stuff from my teams which are all extremely far away from my location. |
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Dec 15, 2010 0:17:49 GMT -5
The dolls were there but most of what was available in the VHS/clothing areas was Hogan or Wrestlemania. I wanted a Road Warriors shirt in '86 but NWA (and most non-Hogan wrestler )stuff was no where to be found, even in hot bed spots like Roanoke or Richmond. I finally got a Warriors shirt at a NWA event. I grew up in Maryland and have always been a Hulk Hogan fan so his stuff was everywhere so I remember getting an alarm clock of his from Kmart WWF got more well rounded in the late 80s early 90s where you could find shirts, toys and novelty items on the Ultimate Warrior or Jake The Snake I dont really remember seeing anything on NWA until 1990 but yes late 90s both WWF and WCW had stuff everywhere I had this awful looking Hogan shirt that was off-gray with a painted portrait design that I got from K-mart. I still wore it every chance I got. I also got one of the old "Hulk Rules" sleeveless Tees from the WWF catalog that had the ripped back like he wore. I kept that even after I began loathing Hulk. Despite its look, that shirt was durable and I continued to lift weights in it for a long time. Speaking of lifting weights I bought two Hulkamania workout kits from Herman sporting goods in 1986 one had dumbbells, the other was a barbell set with 20 lbs and I still have both of them today that was my entry in weight liftting and physical fitness people dont realize what a powerful positive influence Hulk had on kids in the 80s can you imagine if he was doing the whole DX Crouch chops or Stone Cold middle finger salute? Just shows the drastic difference in culture from the 80s to the late 90s |
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Post by K5 on Dec 15, 2010 2:57:30 GMT -5
^ yea, it's absolutely true that for a while he was a positive role model, very much a force of good that balanced the actual violence involved. it's too bad wrestling has soured from the idea of heroes/villains. i mean, sure there is faces and heels, but the morals of both are often skewed.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 15, 2010 5:19:56 GMT -5
Speaking of lifting weights I bought two Hulkamania workout kits from Herman sporting goods in 1986 one had dumbbells, the other was a barbell set with 20 lbs and I still have both of them today that was my entry in weight liftting and physical fitness people dont realize what a powerful positive influence Hulk had on kids in the 80s can you imagine if he was doing the whole DX Crouch chops or Stone Cold middle finger salute? Just shows the drastic difference in culture from the 80s to the late 90s I felt really uncomfortable seeing kids at WWF events in the late 90s. The company was clearly focused on the male 18-34 demo and most of what was done/said was very inappropriate for kids. I looked around many a live event at kids in the 5-8 range and wondered what in the (BLEEP!) their parents were thinking?! |
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 15, 2010 5:28:16 GMT -5
^ yea, it's absolutely true that for a while he was a positive role model, very much a force of good that balanced the actual violence involved. it's too bad wrestling has soured from the idea of heroes/villains. i mean, sure there is faces and heels, but the morals of both are often skewed. They still have some pretty clean cut characters like Cena, Big Show, Mysterio, and Daniel Bryan who would have fit in the family entertainment era. Yet anti-heros like Randy Orton, Edge, and HHH are more like Attitude Era characters. This is part of the reason that I think WWE has struggled in the last few years. They haven't had a concrete vision of their show and have tried to book to please everyone. That can't be done. |
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