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Post by CBT on Dec 24, 2008 14:06:24 GMT -5
Well.... if the ECW title is not on par with the WWE title or World Heavyweight title, he's held a Heavyweight title, a secondary title and the tag team.
If it's technically on par, does that mean Matt Hardy is a Triple Crown Champ? He's holding the (ECW) Heavyweight title. He's held a secondary title, the United States title, as well as the tag team titles.
Even more interesting, is Matt a grandslam champion if he is a triple crown, since he's held three titles that may be consider even though all have been long retired. (Cruiserweight, European, Hardcore)
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Post by Thick Justice on Dec 24, 2008 14:07:22 GMT -5
Punk needs too hold the IC. No Matt Hardy isn't either.
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Post by spawnsyxx9 on Dec 24, 2008 14:08:10 GMT -5
I believe that Jeff Hardy is now officially a grand slam champion on par with Jericho in terms of holding so many different titles.
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Post by CBT on Dec 24, 2008 14:22:40 GMT -5
Punk needs too hold the IC. No Matt Hardy isn't either. Why not. The ECW title is a WWE championship, official and all... so it is either considered a secondary title or ranked on par with the heavyweight. I forgot Morrison. My theory is the ECW Championship in the WWE... the new one, that is, is important enough to be seen as a major title. Therefore, to be a grandslam champion nowadays you need to have held the U.S. or IC title, tag titles, and a Heavyweight title. If ECW title is seen as a Heavyweight title, Morrison and Matt are triple crown winners at the very least. If it's equal to secondary titles, Punk is a triple crown winner without a need for the IC or U.S. title to claim so. EDIT: I don't know how WWE rules on the matter, but on Wikipedia they recognize a triple crown winner as someone whose held the WWE Title/World Heavyweight Title, Tag Team Titles, and the Intercontinental. They mention secondary, but only list IC and not U.S. claiming Cena needs a run with the aforementioned title, even though the U.S. should equal triple crown winner status. |
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Post by spawnsyxx9 on Dec 24, 2008 14:29:48 GMT -5
I hear your argument and while it would make sense, I think a lot of people are just stuck in the old tradition of winning the HW, IC, and Tag titles as a triple crown.
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Post by The Dude on Dec 24, 2008 14:34:10 GMT -5
The US title isn't recognized in the triple crown, is it? Last time I checked it wasn't. If Matt won the IC title he would also be a Grand Slam Champion
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Post by TeamExtreme718x on Dec 24, 2008 14:37:10 GMT -5
Punk should be by Royal Rumble..
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Post by CBT on Dec 24, 2008 14:38:45 GMT -5
I hear your argument and while it would make sense, I think a lot of people are just stuck in the old tradition of winning the HW, IC, and Tag titles as a triple crown. Here's why I mention it though. Let's say secondary title is like it sounds. Let's acknowledge U.S. as a secondary title, and ECW title as the World title that puts you in the clear. That means these guys all should be triple crown winners but are not seen as such. John Morrison: ECW World Champion, Intercontinental Champion, WWE Tag Team Champion. Matt Hardy: ECW World Champion, WWE Tag Team Champion, United States Champion. John Bradshawn Layfield: WWE Champion, United States Champion, WWE Tag Team Champion. Big Show: WWE Champion, United State Champion, WWE Tag Team Champion. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2008 14:42:18 GMT -5
Punk needs too hold the IC. No Matt Hardy isn't either. Why not. The ECW title is a WWE championship, official and all... so it is either considered a secondary title or ranked on par with the heavyweight. I forgot Morrison. My theory is the ECW Championship in the WWE... the new one, that is, is important enough to be seen as a major title. Therefore, to be a grandslam champion nowadays you need to have held the U.S. or IC title, tag titles, and a Heavyweight title. If ECW title is seen as a Heavyweight title, Morrison and Matt are triple crown winners at the very least. If it's equal to secondary titles, Punk is a triple crown winner without a need for the IC or U.S. title to claim so. EDIT: I don't know how WWE rules on the matter, but on Wikipedia they recognize a triple crown winner as someone whose held the WWE Title/World Heavyweight Title, Tag Team Titles, and the Intercontinental. They mention secondary, but only list IC and not U.S. claiming Cena needs a run with the aforementioned title, even though the U.S. should equal triple crown winner status. The reason U.S. isn't considered is because the way it was brought in. It was originally NWA and WCW property, and then when WCW was bought, it took until 2003 before it was reactivated as WWE property. Lineage connects with both companies, as opposed to IC which has been with WWE since its inception. Layman's terms, WWE doesn't officialize it as a second-tier with the IC with Grand Slam/Triple Crown status. Punk needs to win IC (which may happen) to win Triple Crown. However, Hardy has to win IC, and WWE or World Titles to be called one. ECW isn't considered for the same reason as U.S. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2008 14:43:58 GMT -5
I hear your argument and while it would make sense, I think a lot of people are just stuck in the old tradition of winning the HW, IC, and Tag titles as a triple crown. Here's why I mention it though. Let's say secondary title is like it sounds. Let's acknowledge U.S. as a secondary title, and ECW title as the World title that puts you in the clear. That means these guys all should be triple crown winners but are not seen as such. John Morrison: ECW World Champion, Intercontinental Champion, WWE Tag Team Champion. Matt Hardy: ECW World Champion, WWE Tag Team Champion, United States Champion. John Bradshawn Layfield: WWE Champion, United States Champion, WWE Tag Team Champion. Big Show: WWE Champion, United State Champion, WWE Tag Team Champion. Broken record I'm sounding like but ECW World Title isn't even on the same prestige as WWE/World, no matter how people say it is. |
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Post by The L.F.C Fan on Dec 24, 2008 15:08:33 GMT -5
For me Punk is, Matt isn't.
The ECW Title doesn't have anything on the WWE or WHC's prestige.
Which means for now Morrison isn't
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Post by v/\v on Dec 24, 2008 15:17:00 GMT -5
To me the ECW belt is equivelent to the Cruiserweight belt.
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Bret_Hart_Mark™
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Post by Bret_Hart_Mark™ on Dec 24, 2008 15:28:40 GMT -5
To me its about the hard facts. And the fact is the ECW title is a the main title for a WWE brand. That in itself makes it just as important as the WWE or WHC. Prestige, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Same goes for the US title. It doesn't matter what the lineage is, the fact is it is the second tier title on a WWE brand, and thus is equivalent to the IC belt. But with so many titles now I think that being a Triple crown winner or a Grand slam champ is a little pointless, and diluted, that is why WWE doesn't recognize or make reference to it IMO.
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Hollywood QJD
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Post by Hollywood QJD on Dec 24, 2008 16:05:35 GMT -5
THE Us title doesnt count towards Triple crown status. Neither does ECW title, i assume. So Morrison better hurry up and ascend to his greatness, dammit. I'll scream if Punk reaches triple crown staus before him.
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Post by CBT on Dec 24, 2008 17:01:36 GMT -5
Why not. The ECW title is a WWE championship, official and all... so it is either considered a secondary title or ranked on par with the heavyweight. I forgot Morrison. My theory is the ECW Championship in the WWE... the new one, that is, is important enough to be seen as a major title. Therefore, to be a grandslam champion nowadays you need to have held the U.S. or IC title, tag titles, and a Heavyweight title. If ECW title is seen as a Heavyweight title, Morrison and Matt are triple crown winners at the very least. If it's equal to secondary titles, Punk is a triple crown winner without a need for the IC or U.S. title to claim so. EDIT: I don't know how WWE rules on the matter, but on Wikipedia they recognize a triple crown winner as someone whose held the WWE Title/World Heavyweight Title, Tag Team Titles, and the Intercontinental. They mention secondary, but only list IC and not U.S. claiming Cena needs a run with the aforementioned title, even though the U.S. should equal triple crown winner status. The reason U.S. isn't considered is because the way it was brought in. It was originally NWA and WCW property, and then when WCW was bought, it took until 2003 before it was reactivated as WWE property. Lineage connects with both companies, as opposed to IC which has been with WWE since its inception. Layman's terms, WWE doesn't officialize it as a second-tier with the IC with Grand Slam/Triple Crown status. Punk needs to win IC (which may happen) to win Triple Crown. However, Hardy has to win IC, and WWE or World Titles to be called one. ECW isn't considered for the same reason as U.S. I kinda get what your saying. The ECW, no matter how they book it, won't be acknowledged due to the title being adapted from another promotion. Not entirely the name, just the title. Like if the ECW Tag Titles were reincarnated with Miz and Morrison. They could be official titles, but they don't symbolize the WWE. In other words... you'll never be triple crown champion if you're holding a title that has history in another company. Well, beside the Big Gold belt. |
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Post by James Hetfield on Dec 24, 2008 17:35:58 GMT -5
I don't know what makes you think he's a triple crown winner. He hasn't even had the IC title yet.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Dec 24, 2008 17:41:29 GMT -5
Edge is the ULTIMATE CROWN Champion
World Title
WWE Title
IC Title
World Tag Team
WWE Tag Team
US Title
Hardcore Title
King Of The Ring
Outside of European, Cruiswerweight(which he is too heavy) and a Women's Title (which he is the wrong gender).....Edge has done it all. I dont think anyone else can say that.
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Post by James Hetfield on Dec 24, 2008 17:51:10 GMT -5
But he's also had some really crapty ways of winning belts. I know he's a heel and all, but it gets annoying him winning the belt in the same "Surprise" type manner.
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Post by Mr. PerpetuaLynch Motion on Dec 25, 2008 10:05:21 GMT -5
Edge is the ULTIMATE CROWN Champion World Title WWE Title IC Title World Tag Team WWE Tag Team US Title Hardcore Title King Of The Ring Outside of European, Cruiswerweight(which he is too heavy) and a Women's Title (which he is the wrong gender).....Edge has done it all. I dont think anyone else can say that. He hasn't won the Royal Rumble yet... |
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Post by lancewiget on Dec 25, 2008 11:27:38 GMT -5
To be a Triple Crown Champion, you need to have held the WWE Championship or World Heavyweight Championship, the Intercontinental Championship and the WWE or World Tag Team Championships. The United States Championship is not part of the set.
To be a Grand Slam Champion, you need to have held either the WWE Championship or World Heavyweight Championship, the Intercontinental Championship, either the WWE or World Tag Team Championships and the WWE European Championship.
So anybody who joined the company after 2002 will never be a Grand Slam Champ.
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