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Post by JokerFC on Jun 6, 2024 13:45:58 GMT -5
So We all know the infamous story of Jan 4th 1999 and the antics that went on surrounding it. But I've been watching a few snippets recently and listening to a few podcasts where its came up and I never heard anything about this prosed NBC special that apparently spurred on the entire situation. I noted the main bullet points here....
Putting the title back on Hogan:
According to various sources this was done because the folks at NBC wanted Hulk in the Main Event with the gold and Eric was so eager to make this work it was a no brainer. They also wanted Savage in the ME vs Hogan(its what they knew and associated with big $$) which explains an awful lot too...Savage returned on the Nitro after Starrcade wearing an nWo black and white shirt(heavily talked up by the announcers)and helped Flair beat Bischoff...then disappeared until April. This was clearly meant to be the start of an angle but it was dropped.
Why not have Hogan beat Goldberg at Starrcade?
Hogan had no dates left on his contract....so the Jan 4th plan in front of a sold out Georgia dome was the plan. At some point it pivoted from Hogan beating Goldberg to Nash beating Goldberg & re-uniting the nWo so that Bill could wreck them(Weve often wondered why that didn't happen) with the payoff being BATB 99 or somewhere for Bill to go back on top vs Hogan.
Turner brass put the kibosh on it
Bischoff has denied this but a lot of folks that were there and in around the business of WCW said that it DID happen & the higher ups were like "nah thats not happening...you bitched about Thunder so you aren't going elsewhere to make a big splash for our rivals". Bischoff was spooked by the time warner deal and felt the special on NBC would be absolutely huge for the brand...and give him leverage against leaner and leaner budgets. But the lock out ended and then NBC didnt want the deal either...Bischoff was crushed after making so much noise.....then the entire thing fell apart and we ended up getting what we got in early 99...Flair vs Hogan again and really really lacklustre directionless creative.
thoughts?
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Jun 10, 2024 0:03:14 GMT -5
Hogan & Nash should have beat the crap outta each other & end it with Hogan winning the belt.
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Post by jason88cubs on Jun 10, 2024 7:48:22 GMT -5
I'm confused. Why would NBC put on a WCW special, if NBC Owns USA which had RAW?
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 10, 2024 9:05:11 GMT -5
To me, the Finger Poke of Doom will always come down to “that don’t work for me brother.” It’s been reported that Hogan never wanted to initially drop the belt to Goldberg in the first place, wanting it to be a non-title fight instead before Bischoff convinced him to change his mind.
The Finger Poke of Doom makes no sense no matter how many times people try to explain it. There were no hints what so ever during the previous year that Hogan and Nash were secretly in cahoots together. There was nothing to suggest that half of the nWo and Wolfpac were playing everyone else, including their own teammates.
The funny thing is that in the initial weeks following Hogan/Nash, WCW ratings actually saw a bump in viewers. There were fans interested to see Goldberg destroy the nWo once and for all. Hell, even the first Hogan/Flair match at Uncensored did a decent buy rate. The problem is that fans quickly realized that Goldberg was never going to get his revenge and Hogan/Flair was simply going to keep dragging on. This is when the nose-dive in ratings truly began.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jun 10, 2024 10:24:08 GMT -5
So I know the finger poke of doom gets talked about in a negative way a lot but I need to explain something about it....
Kevin Nash has a fear of finger pokes.
It dates back to 1994 when the 123 Kid would finger poke him in the ribs while Nash was driving the Kliq van.
Hogan knew this fear, out of a night drinking with Waltman before he told Bischoff to fire him. So Hogan always had that move in his back pocket.
Then, he waited for the right moment to unleash that very move and he chose to on the Jan. 4th 1999 Nitro episode where he finally won back the WCW Title off of Nash.
Nash, so scared and embarrassed by what happened, got up and celebrated with Hogan, thus reforming the NWO again.
And nobody ever spoke of this ever again!
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Post by JokerFC on Jun 10, 2024 15:24:12 GMT -5
So I know the finger poke of doom gets talked about in a negative way a lot but I need to explain something about it.... Kevin Nash has a fear of finger pokes. It dates back to 1994 when the 123 Kid would finger poke him in the ribs while Nash was driving the Kliq van. Hogan knew this fear, out of a night drinking with Waltman before he told Bischoff to fire him. So Hogan always had that move in his back pocket. Then, he waited for the right moment to unleash that very move and he chose to on the Jan. 4th 1999 Nitro episode where he finally won back the WCW Title off of Nash. Nash, so scared and embarrassed by what happened, got up and celebrated with Hogan, thus reforming the NWO again. And nobody ever spoke of this ever again! 🤣🤣🤣 |
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Post by JokerFC on Jun 10, 2024 15:24:55 GMT -5
To me, the Finger Poke of Doom will always come down to “that don’t work for me brother.” It’s been reported that Hogan never wanted to initially drop the belt to Goldberg in the first place, wanting it to be a non-title fight instead before Bischoff convinced him to change his mind. The Finger Poke of Doom makes no sense no matter how many times people try to explain it. There were no hints what so ever during the previous year that Hogan and Nash were secretly in cahoots together. There was nothing to suggest that half of the nWo and Wolfpac were playing everyone else, including their own teammates. The funny thing is that in the initial weeks following Hogan/Nash, WCW ratings actually saw a bump in viewers. There were fans interested to see Goldberg destroy the nWo once and for all. Hell, even the first Hogan/Flair match at Uncensored did a decent buy rate. The problem is that fans quickly realized that Goldberg was never going to get his revenge and Hogan/Flair was simply going to keep dragging on. This is when the nose-dive in ratings truly began. Spot on & no it will never make sense...your 100% right there |
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Post by The Brain on Jun 10, 2024 16:29:14 GMT -5
To me, the Finger Poke of Doom will always come down to “that don’t work for me brother.” It’s been reported that Hogan never wanted to initially drop the belt to Goldberg in the first place, wanting it to be a non-title fight instead before Bischoff convinced him to change his mind. The Finger Poke of Doom makes no sense no matter how many times people try to explain it. There were no hints what so ever during the previous year that Hogan and Nash were secretly in cahoots together. There was nothing to suggest that half of the nWo and Wolfpac were playing everyone else, including their own teammates.The funny thing is that in the initial weeks following Hogan/Nash, WCW ratings actually saw a bump in viewers. There were fans interested to see Goldberg destroy the nWo once and for all. Hell, even the first Hogan/Flair match at Uncensored did a decent buy rate. The problem is that fans quickly realized that Goldberg was never going to get his revenge and Hogan/Flair was simply going to keep dragging on. This is when the nose-dive in ratings truly began. This is the thing that still gets me 25 yrs later They were building this whole faction ''warfare'' between the two since the previous Spring and that whole time it was all a swerve with them in on it all along? Come on... Makes Sting a really big idiot for joining then huh? No sense at all |
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 10, 2024 18:43:38 GMT -5
To me, the Finger Poke of Doom will always come down to “that don’t work for me brother.” It’s been reported that Hogan never wanted to initially drop the belt to Goldberg in the first place, wanting it to be a non-title fight instead before Bischoff convinced him to change his mind. The Finger Poke of Doom makes no sense no matter how many times people try to explain it. There were no hints what so ever during the previous year that Hogan and Nash were secretly in cahoots together. There was nothing to suggest that half of the nWo and Wolfpac were playing everyone else, including their own teammates.The funny thing is that in the initial weeks following Hogan/Nash, WCW ratings actually saw a bump in viewers. There were fans interested to see Goldberg destroy the nWo once and for all. Hell, even the first Hogan/Flair match at Uncensored did a decent buy rate. The problem is that fans quickly realized that Goldberg was never going to get his revenge and Hogan/Flair was simply going to keep dragging on. This is when the nose-dive in ratings truly began. This is the thing that still gets me 25 yrs later They were building this whole faction ''warfare'' between the two since the previous Spring and that whole time it was all a swerve with them in on it all along? Come on... Makes Sting a really big idiot for joining then huh? No sense at all I love Sting. He’s one of my favorites. But few superstars have been booked to look like a bigger idiot than the Stinger. From trusting the Horseman at one point, to joining the nWo, to eventually being booked as HHH’s bitch at Wrestlemania, the Stinger always seemed to look like a buffoon. |
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Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
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Joined on: Jul 1, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
Posts: 2,620
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jun 14, 2024 8:10:37 GMT -5
Something that isn’t emphasized about the whole finger poke is that the Wolfpack was VERY over. Like, any time they show the History of WCW and whatnot, they always throw the Wolfpack in with the decline. I recall the Wolfpack being VERY over. What hurt it the most was it was like a cooler spin off of the original nWo, and now it was joining the original nWo which at the time, to me, was perceived as old news.
I was THRILLED that Kevin Nash beat Goldberg. In my eyes, Nash was the top guy in WCW and deserved to be champion for a long time. I think people forget that Starrcade 98 was Nash’s first world title win in WCW. So this was like, crowning the uncrowned champion in my eyes. Then the next night, he gives it right back to Hogan. It’s like McGwire breaking Maris’s HR record, and then giving it back to Babe Ruth.
I think it’s really mislabeled as “oh people hated Nash beating Goldberg and then he just gave the belt to Hogan”. I think everyone LOVED Nash and were disenchanted by the ending to his journey to his first title win, breaking away from Hogan and even the nWo, and then going right back to being subordinate to Hogan the next night.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 14, 2024 20:53:14 GMT -5
Something that isn’t emphasized about the whole finger poke is that the Wolfpack was VERY over. Like, any time they show the History of WCW and whatnot, they always throw the Wolfpack in with the decline. I recall the Wolfpack being VERY over. What hurt it the most was it was like a cooler spin off of the original nWo, and now it was joining the original nWo which at the time, to me, was perceived as old news. I was THRILLED that Kevin Nash beat Goldberg. In my eyes, Nash was the top guy in WCW and deserved to be champion for a long time. I think people forget that Starrcade 98 was Nash’s first world title win in WCW. So this was like, crowning the uncrowned champion in my eyes. Then the next night, he gives it right back to Hogan. It’s like McGwire breaking Maris’s HR record, and then giving it back to Babe Ruth. I think it’s really mislabeled as “oh people hated Nash beating Goldberg and then he just gave the belt to Hogan”. I think everyone LOVED Nash and were disenchanted by the ending to his journey to his first title win, breaking away from Hogan and even the nWo, and then going right back to being subordinate to Hogan the next night. The Wolfpack was over like crazy in 1998. Anyone who doubts it needs to watch the reliving the war series on YouTube to see just how big their pops were and how many red-and-black shirts were in the crowd. And at the front of the Wolfpacks momentum was Kevin Nash who was over big. Just look at the pop he gets when he beats Goldberg. The fans in attendance ate it up. Like you said I don’t think the issue was Nash beating Goldberg since he himself was one of WCW’s biggest stars. In hindsight you could say that someone younger should have gotten the rub from Bill, but it’s not like Nash was a nobody. The problem was a week later when the finger poke incident happened. WCW made Goldberg and Nash both look like idiots in one bad segment when fans wanted nothing more than a Nash/Goldberg rematch. |
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Sandman
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jun 11, 2015 3:24:42 GMT -5
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Post by Sandman on Jun 15, 2024 1:32:07 GMT -5
Did Hogan ever have a rematch with Goldberg after losing to Bill in 98?, i don't remember the two having a 1 on 1 match with Hogan getting his win back like he did with Warrior, i guess maybe that was the original plan going foward and would've happened at some point but i guess things fell through.. Goldberg was out with an injury for a while and Hogan was out of WCW by summer of 2000, they probably could've had a babyface red and yellow or FUNB Hogan win over Goldberg when they made him turn heel during the New Blood angle, roles reversed i guess..
Speaking of Hogan winning the title off Nash the night after Starrcade, wasn't there a similar situation later in the year or the previous year with him winning the title off Macho Man after Randy had won the title at some point in 98/99?, i seem to recall Macho talking with Mene Gene and JJ Dillon in the ring and Hogan was announced to be the number 1 contender and Macho's first title defense, i can't remember if Hogan won the match and the title.. If he did win it off Macho, how many other times did Hogan pull the ol' creative control card the night after someone had won the big gold belt at a ppv over the years?
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Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
Joined on: Jul 1, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
Posts: 2,620
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jun 15, 2024 8:03:10 GMT -5
Something that isn’t emphasized about the whole finger poke is that the Wolfpack was VERY over. Like, any time they show the History of WCW and whatnot, they always throw the Wolfpack in with the decline. I recall the Wolfpack being VERY over. What hurt it the most was it was like a cooler spin off of the original nWo, and now it was joining the original nWo which at the time, to me, was perceived as old news. I was THRILLED that Kevin Nash beat Goldberg. In my eyes, Nash was the top guy in WCW and deserved to be champion for a long time. I think people forget that Starrcade 98 was Nash’s first world title win in WCW. So this was like, crowning the uncrowned champion in my eyes. Then the next night, he gives it right back to Hogan. It’s like McGwire breaking Maris’s HR record, and then giving it back to Babe Ruth. I think it’s really mislabeled as “oh people hated Nash beating Goldberg and then he just gave the belt to Hogan”. I think everyone LOVED Nash and were disenchanted by the ending to his journey to his first title win, breaking away from Hogan and even the nWo, and then going right back to being subordinate to Hogan the next night. The Wolfpack was over like crazy in 1998. Anyone who doubts it needs to watch the reliving the war series on YouTube to see just how big their pops were and how many red-and-black shirts were in the crowd. And at the front of the Wolfpacks momentum was Kevin Nash who was over big. Just look at the pop he gets when he beats Goldberg. The fans in attendance ate it up. Like you said I don’t think the issue was Nash beating Goldberg since he himself was one of WCW’s biggest stars. In hindsight you could say that someone younger should have gotten the rub from Bill, but it’s not like Nash was a nobody. The problem was a week later when the finger poke incident happened. WCW made Goldberg and Nash both look like idiots in one bad segment when fans wanted nothing more than a Nash/Goldberg rematch. Totally agree. People see everything from today’s lenses, back in 1998, Nash WAS one of the younger guys. We had only known this man existed for 5 years haha. 1993, he’s green as grass in glasses standing ringside for HBK. This is 5 years later. This is the time period he SHOULD have been your top guy. Wolfpack had elevated Nash to being face of the company material and to be honest, following the finger poke, can you even recall what Nash did after that in WCW? He went from being the face of the company, and deservedly so, to being irrelevant. Thats the true crime, it’s not that Nash beat Goldberg, that was the right call in my eyes and the fans eyes (like you said, listen to the crowd). The issue was they totally squashed ANY momentum coming out of the Starrcade match by literally pivoting to Hogan who had nothing to do with anything. It was like a reboot. |
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Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
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Joined on: Jul 1, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
Posts: 2,620
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jun 15, 2024 8:06:29 GMT -5
Did Hogan ever have a rematch with Goldberg after losing to Bill in 98?, i don't remember the two having a 1 on 1 match with Hogan getting his win back like he did with Warrior, i guess maybe that was the original plan going foward and would've happened at some point but i guess things fell through.. Goldberg was out with an injury for a while and Hogan was out of WCW by summer of 2000, they probably could've had a babyface red and yellow or FUNB Hogan win over Goldberg when they made him turn heel during the New Blood angle, roles reversed i guess.. Speaking of Hogan winning the title off Nash the night after Starrcade, wasn't there a similar situation later in the year or the previous year with him winning the title off Macho Man after Randy had won the title at some point in 98/99?, i seem to recall Macho talking with Mene Gene and JJ Dillon in the ring and Hogan was announced to be the number 1 contender and Macho's first title defense, i can't remember if Hogan won the match and the title.. If he did win it off Macho, how many other times did Hogan pull the ol' creative control card the night after someone had won the big gold belt at a ppv over the years? I think you’re thinking of World War 3 when Savage won the belt and Hogan immediately jumps into the ring to request a title match. I think Savage held onto the belt for like a month though that time. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 15, 2024 17:05:22 GMT -5
Did Hogan ever have a rematch with Goldberg after losing to Bill in 98?, i don't remember the two having a 1 on 1 match with Hogan getting his win back like he did with Warrior, i guess maybe that was the original plan going foward and would've happened at some point but i guess things fell through.. Goldberg was out with an injury for a while and Hogan was out of WCW by summer of 2000, they probably could've had a babyface red and yellow or FUNB Hogan win over Goldberg when they made him turn heel during the New Blood angle, roles reversed i guess.. Speaking of Hogan winning the title off Nash the night after Starrcade, wasn't there a similar situation later in the year or the previous year with him winning the title off Macho Man after Randy had won the title at some point in 98/99?, i seem to recall Macho talking with Mene Gene and JJ Dillon in the ring and Hogan was announced to be the number 1 contender and Macho's first title defense, i can't remember if Hogan won the match and the title.. If he did win it off Macho, how many other times did Hogan pull the ol' creative control card the night after someone had won the big gold belt at a ppv over the years? I think you’re thinking of World War 3 when Savage won the belt and Hogan immediately jumps into the ring to request a title match. I think Savage held onto the belt for like a month though that time. Macho had two different WCW Title reigns that ended after only one day to Hogan. First was in 1998 when Nash helped Savage beat Sting to win the belt (which is funny considering Sting join Nash the next month). This again killed any momentum they had built with Hogan being paranoid with someone else running the nWo by having him win the belt from Macho literally 24 hours later. The next was in ‘99 after Macho beat Nash at Bash at the Beach 1999 to win the belt. Again, the very next night Hogan takes the belt, killing months worth of story between Nash and Macho. |
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Post by JokerFC on Jun 17, 2024 18:07:42 GMT -5
Its def strange that people think the Wolfpack wasn't over......they were HUGE.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 17, 2024 19:21:58 GMT -5
Its def strange that people think the Wolfpack wasn't over......they were HUGE. It’s funny how a lot of fans today buy into the WWE revisionist history. I guess that’s what happens when the WWE controls the narrative. They always blow off the Wolfpack like they were just another part of the the “bad” era of WCW, but I’d argue that the Wolfpack was more popular than the DX Army. Watching “”Reliving the War” on YouTube reminded me just how directionless and forced DX was once HBK retired. I remember seeing just as many Wolfpack shirts as nWo shirts at school and in public. The group contained mainstream names like Nash, Sting, Macho, ect…and came off as cool and laid back, while the DX Army came off as forced sophomoric humor (even as a kid I wasn’t big into them once HBK was gone). Nash said in an interview that he got the idea for the Wolfpack after hearing HBK talk about expanding DX. I’d argue Nash took that idea and executed it better than HHH and the WWF did. No HBK meant DX just came off as a midcard group with constant d*ick jokes. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jun 18, 2024 1:14:21 GMT -5
Its def strange that people think the Wolfpack wasn't over......they were HUGE. It’s funny how a lot of fans today buy into the WWE revisionist history. I guess that’s what happens when the WWE controls the narrative. They always blow off the Wolfpack like they were just another part of the the “bad” era of WCW, but I’d argue that the Wolfpack was more popular than the DX Army. Watching “”Reliving the War” on YouTube reminded me just how directionless and forced DX was once HBK retired. I remember seeing just as many Wolfpack shirts as nWo shirts at school and in public. The group contained mainstream names like Nash, Sting, Macho, ect…and came off as cool and laid back, while the DX Army came off as forced sophomoric humor (even as a kid I wasn’t big into them once HBK was gone). Nash said in an interview that he got the idea for the Wolfpack after hearing HBK talk about expanding DX. I’d argue Nash took that idea and executed it better than HHH and the WWF did. No HBK meant DX just came off as a midcard group with constant d*ick jokes.
The NWO was over as soon as you heard that rap song they had to come to the ring with. My buddy was huge into rap and we were in high school at the time and he goes, "Man, that NWO song is so good" and I said, "Oh yeah, they've been using it for like years now though" and he goes, "no man, they have a rap song now for Nash and his NWO" and I wasn't watching WCW at that moment cause the satellite was out (we used a smart card at the time to get all the channels in for free and it was out) so I had no idea that the NWO Wolfpac had formed.
I will say this about DX... it didn't get popular until the summer of 1998. Around King of the Ring time, like right after it the DX thing really got going. The NWO Wolfpac was going from April all the way through summer and into winter of 1998. Hence the Nash beating Goldberg thing at Starrcade.
It's sad that WWE owns WCW and controls what we know about it now. The newer fans have no clue who never lived the Monday Night War era how invested we were into both shows - and on top of that the renegade promotion called ECW we all loved - probably more so than WWF and WCW at the time!
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Post by hbkjason on Jun 18, 2024 1:45:56 GMT -5
Its def strange that people think the Wolfpack wasn't over......they were HUGE. The Wolfpack and Kevin Nash especially were so freaking cool, effortlessly cool! WCW did so many dumb things and the way they pissed away the Wolfpack was one of them. The theme song, the logo and just the way Nash carried himself was so badass! |
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Post by JokerFC on Jun 18, 2024 18:05:39 GMT -5
Its def strange that people think the Wolfpack wasn't over......they were HUGE. The Wolfpack and Kevin Nash especially were so freaking cool, effortlessly cool! WCW did so many dumb things and the way they pissed away the Wolfpack was one of them. The theme song, the logo and just the way Nash carried himself was so badass! imagine if the group had been given who they originally wanted instead of who they got & been allowed drop the nWo logo....oh man.....Different level. |
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