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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Aug 3, 2023 20:09:43 GMT -5
I wanna say the first couple Doink figures were generic face sculpts. They were done when Mattel didn’t need to have the person portraying the character under a deal if their likeness wasn’t necessary. So they may appear to resemble Borne but I don’t think that is his sculpt. Or maybe they made it too close to his likeness that they got sued and that’s why now the rule is that the person who portrayed the character has to be under a deal regardless if their likeness is being used or not. I get the likeness issue for Doink since it's his face with just makeup covering it. Even if they use a generic face, maybe they don't want to risk it with court fees (and the possibility of losing the case). I don't get the rule for Gooker, Kim Chee, Fiend, Kane, etc. though. If a mask is fully covering your face, then I'm not sure why there would be an issue as long as WWE had the rights to the masks/attire and the characters (which they don't for someone like the Patriot). A very small part of me wondered if they were tired of us asking about Gooker so they just said that they couldn't since Hector wasn't signed (especially since other people wore different variations of the costume that were under contract). Yeah IDK. NECA originally did 1990 movie Casey Jones without the actor’s license then later made a maskless version after they got his likeness rights. My guess is they got in trouble by using Doink without Borne so now they’re just playing it safe. |
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valo487
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jun 25, 2016 10:41:02 GMT -5
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Post by valo487 on Aug 3, 2023 21:04:10 GMT -5
I don’t know if this shines any light, but in 2K23 where Doink was DLC, his in game render is a picture of the game model, not a photo of anyone in the Doink costume and makeup, it struck me as odd because he’s one of the only people in the game where that is the case.
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TheEvilDoink1987
Main Eventer
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Posts: 2,827
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Aug 4, 2023 6:55:53 GMT -5
I always wonder where the line is drawn between character trademark and likeness copyright.
Say for example, Max Moon. Couldn't they make a figure of him without having to pay royalties to either Konnan or Paul Diamond because they own the trademark? The same for The Blue Blazer. Of course, it would be in terrible taste to release such a figure and understandably won't ever happen, but since multiple people played the gimmick wouldn't WWE be legally permitted to license merchandise for a character they own since the likeness can not be tied to one particular person?
Any copyright lawyers lurking on these forums? Would love some legal insight.
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scotthitman1
Superstar
Joined on: May 26, 2016 20:59:07 GMT -5
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Post by scotthitman1 on Aug 4, 2023 23:22:56 GMT -5
Does it really freaking matter!?!?!? The head sculpt is covered in paint anyways and green clown hair, it's not like it's a clear obvious answer as to who it is, who cares who it is, be glad we got a doink the clown figure....be glad we got multiple doink the clown figures. Y'all looking to deep into this
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Post by Flair Forever on Aug 5, 2023 3:20:21 GMT -5
Slightly off-topic (but still on-DOINK-topic).... Can I reasonably expect that the Doink Superstars jacket will fit on the Elite #34 Doink? Because if it fits.... I think that would look fantastic.... Weren't people putting the Superstars Mankind shirt on the Elite? And that was successful?  |
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kanepilk
Superstar
Joined on: Oct 7, 2021 19:38:25 GMT -5
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Post by kanepilk on Aug 5, 2023 20:53:40 GMT -5
I get the likeness issue for Doink since it's his face with just makeup covering it. Even if they use a generic face, maybe they don't want to risk it with court fees (and the possibility of losing the case). I don't get the rule for Gooker, Kim Chee, Fiend, Kane, etc. though. If a mask is fully covering your face, then I'm not sure why there would be an issue as long as WWE had the rights to the masks/attire and the characters (which they don't for someone like the Patriot). A very small part of me wondered if they were tired of us asking about Gooker so they just said that they couldn't since Hector wasn't signed (especially since other people wore different variations of the costume that were under contract). Yeah IDK. NECA originally did 1990 movie Casey Jones without the actor’s license then later made a maskless version after they got his likeness rights. My guess is they got in trouble by using Doink without Borne so now they’re just playing it safe.
They did the same with Robocop. Always had his mask on, but they did a version with his mask off/face visible once they finally got Peter Weller signed up to it.
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Post by shanieomaniac on Aug 6, 2023 2:25:26 GMT -5
Ok, so thing that I have always assumed factors into the whole "Using characters without the actor's permission" thing.
Little known thing, when Back To The Future II came out, they used archive footage from part I without Crispin Glover's permission. The ALSO used facial molds from his original makeup to recreate prosthetics for the new actor who they hired to replace him. This led to a huuuuuuge lawsuit which Glover won and it made it a rule that you cannot use any form of an actor's likeness without their permission, even if that likeness is hidden under a mask.
I don't know if this has anything to do with what is going on in the figure world when it comes to this topic, but I've never been able to not consider it a possibility when they discuss things such as the Gooker situation.
But as stated, the character of Doink entirely is owned by WWE and has been used by many many people, so perhaps there is a loophole that they can do Doink as a generic character and not worry about having the specific people under license.
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Post by kirk815 on Aug 6, 2023 11:35:12 GMT -5
Ok, so thing that I have always assumed factors into the whole "Using characters without the actor's permission" thing. Little known thing, when Back To The Future II came out, they used archive footage from part I without Crispin Glover's permission. The ALSO used facial molds from his original makeup to recreate prosthetics for the new actor who they hired to replace him. This led to a huuuuuuge lawsuit which Glover won and it made it a rule that you cannot use any form of an actor's likeness without their permission, even if that likeness is hidden under a mask. I don't know if this has anything to do with what is going on in the figure world when it comes to this topic, but I've never been able to not consider it a possibility when they discuss things such as the Gooker situation. But as stated, the character of Doink entirely is owned by WWE and has been used by many many people, so perhaps there is a loophole that they can do Doink as a generic character and not worry about having the specific people under license. Molds of someone's face makes sense - still not sure if that would cover a mask worn (unless the mask was made under that process). I remember one of the Saw sequels had Danny Glover credited so everyone thought he was going to be in a flashback scene before it came out - turns out they just showed a picture of him in the movie. |
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Post by Flair Forever on Aug 9, 2023 18:53:21 GMT -5
I was looking over the Doink Elite figure today.... doing some figure photography; It would be difficult to argue that the original Elite Doink isn't Matt Bourne.....  |
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TheEvilDoink1987
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 22, 2010 21:37:52 GMT -5
Posts: 2,827
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Aug 9, 2023 22:29:08 GMT -5
Does it really freaking matter!?!?!? The head sculpt is covered in paint anyways and green clown hair, it's not like it's a clear obvious answer as to who it is, who cares who it is, be glad we got a doink the clown figure....be glad we got multiple doink the clown figures. Y'all looking to deep into this I don't think people are upset about any lack of Doink figures, but the bigger discussion is just speculating the legal parameters Mattel has to work within and where the line is drawn when it comes to likeness/copyright statutes. Could a Max Moon figure happen without consent from Konnan and/or Paul Diamond? Would Edge & Christian be entitled to royalties if they ever made Los Conquistadors? What about someone like Jeff Farmer who portrayed nWo Sting? |
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Aug 10, 2023 8:46:41 GMT -5
Slightly off-topic (but still on-DOINK-topic).... Can I reasonably expect that the Doink Superstars jacket will fit on the Elite #34 Doink? Because if it fits.... I think that would look fantastic.... Weren't people putting the Superstars Mankind shirt on the Elite? And that was successful? It should fit but the torso and arms on Superstars are a thicker so the jacket may be a bit baggy in those areas on the elite. Superstars are 5.5” scale so may look a little short too. |
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Post by jumpinjefffarmer on Aug 10, 2023 8:48:49 GMT -5
Does it really freaking matter!?!?!? The head sculpt is covered in paint anyways and green clown hair, it's not like it's a clear obvious answer as to who it is, who cares who it is, be glad we got a doink the clown figure....be glad we got multiple doink the clown figures. Y'all looking to deep into this I don't think people are upset about any lack of Doink figures, but the bigger discussion is just speculating the legal parameters Mattel has to work within and where the line is drawn when it comes to likeness/copyright statutes. Could a Max Moon figure happen without consent from Konnan and/or Paul Diamond? Would Edge & Christian be entitled to royalties if they ever made Los Conquistadors? What about someone like Jeff Farmer who portrayed nWo Sting? Hey - dont bring me into this. Seriously - discussing doink in any capacity makes me happy |
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Aug 10, 2023 9:32:31 GMT -5
Yeah IDK. NECA originally did 1990 movie Casey Jones without the actor’s license then later made a maskless version after they got his likeness rights. My guess is they got in trouble by using Doink without Borne so now they’re just playing it safe.
They did the same with Robocop. Always had his mask on, but they did a version with his mask off/face visible once they finally got Peter Weller signed up to it.
Yup, and an example of someone who didn’t wear a mask is Mattel’s Masterverse MOTU Movie He-Man. They used a generic head instead of Dolph’s likeness. Super7 may have done the same or could be that they suck at making human heads. |
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