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Post by vampiroporvida on Apr 15, 2020 8:22:31 GMT -5
Here's something I want to understand. The hydrochlor.. medicine combo works on some, others it doesn't. Plasma and stem cell unknown at this time. Interesting enough, but we tend to know that not all treatments of most things work the same in all people....but The weaker Covid India strain, now called type C, has just been talked about, as well as a B type...I believe it is said to have mutated to these less severe? types, from the original A type. Now, we aren't testing for the type of covid people have, and A and I assume B are here given Europe travels, so could the type mean said treatments work only for b and c, and not the A? Do we focus vaccine toward A? The fear some had is mutations could be worse in the future and not less severe, making the current vaccine trajectory wasted?
Can someone smart around these parts please break it down for this lamen?
Thank you all.
VPV
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Post by Valbroski on Apr 15, 2020 8:28:37 GMT -5
I got my stimulus check.
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Post by kennyw86v2 on Apr 15, 2020 9:47:43 GMT -5
I honestly do believe some of the deaths being attributed to covid 19 arent really because of covid 19.
I'm not saying it is a hoax or whatever, but I believe it's being pushed as worse than it is.
In my state, as of last week, we had 35,000 cases and 171 deaths. That % is so pathetically low that nobody would take it seriously if thats what was reported everywhere.
Because of that I do think they have started taking liberties with adding covid as the cause of death. To make people more cautious.
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Post by GBGav on Apr 15, 2020 10:20:01 GMT -5
I honestly do believe some of the deaths being attributed to covid 19 arent really because of covid 19. I'm not saying it is a hoax or whatever, but I believe it's being pushed as worse than it is. In my state, as of last week, we had 35,000 cases and 171 deaths. That % is so pathetically low that nobody would take it seriously if thats what was reported everywhere. Because of that I do think they have started taking liberties with adding covid as the cause of death. To make people more cautious. The percentage seems skewed when comparing some countries. USA and Italy have similar death numbers yet USA has almost 500k more cases? Of course medical resources and availability of testing will be a factor. It's almost like an infected driver could die in a car accident and they'll be like "yeah, it was Covid that got him."
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Post by rkmo: No Greater Threat on Apr 15, 2020 11:21:28 GMT -5
There was a 3700-person jump in deaths last night because New York did begin counting "probable" fatalities due to CoVid, not just those who had confirmed cases.
More a sign of our inadequate testing measures and a medical system under massive strain.
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Post by bad guy™ on Apr 15, 2020 11:37:34 GMT -5
For my fellow Americans in here:
Paper stimulus checks could see another delay in their dispersment. The Treasury has signed off on the most narcissistic thing ever: they're changing the code that's used to print the checks so that rather than just the "payee" signature that is normally on the front, Trump's name would appear on the front as the signer as well. Why is that such a big deal? It's because this is the first time ever that someone who isn't an independent servant inspector of the State will be on checks. Presidents have tried before, most recently Bush both in the 2001 stimulus bill that came as a return on investment when the economy was in the green, and the second stimulus that came when the recession hit.
This is Trump being not only narcissistic, thinking that this is his money he's giving to Americans rather than a large repayment on the taxes they've kept from the people, this is also wholly political since it very much can be perceived as a political reelection power move. Aside from the Courts, the one thing that should always remain independent is the Treasury/IRS. But since Trump can't hold any rallies in the foreseeable future, this is just Plan B.
So...yay?
I've tried to not bring politics into this thread, but these stimulus checks are wholly about America and the politics behind it. Everyone knows here that I don't like Trump, even if I do give him credit where it's due. But even Trump supporters should be ticked about this, because they need the money just as much as any other worker who's been furloughed or lost all of their income because of the virus.
Now the Treasury is saying there will be no delays in the mass production of the checks, that only a few things need to change. No. If you know anything about how government checks are made, you know that it's a very complicated set of code that ensures the appropriate money, signs, watermarks, and every individual name is printed to the next person's name every time. So now they have to rewrite that system to include a new signature? The government is slow and slightly incompetent. And anyone who knows about tech, when you update and change the coding of an already complex coded machine, 9/10 of the time the new coding has nome thing written in it that causes other parts of the code to either corrupt, or at least cause issues within other lines of code that sometimes can be ridiculously hard tk find the error no matter how many IT people you have looking in regards to the code within a highly integrated system with millions upon millions of lines of code to sift through.
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Post by rkmo: No Greater Threat on Apr 15, 2020 11:46:14 GMT -5
bad guy™ Alluded to your point about the political aspect last night in a now-deleted response.
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Post by bad guy™ on Apr 15, 2020 11:57:14 GMT -5
bad guy™ Alluded to your point about the political aspect last night in a now-deleted response. Yeah, I don't want to bring politics into this thread, because this thread is supposed to be about the virus and the world recovery. But when politics starts getting in the way of the economic healing of this pandemic, I'm going to call it out. I dug in on Pelosi way back in the beginning for basically saying she wouldn't sign any economic bill that gave money to Americans, but rather issue blanket tax credits when money is what we desperately need. So I've gone after both sides on the ineptness they've displayed.
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Post by kennyw86v2 on Apr 15, 2020 12:32:25 GMT -5
I honestly do believe some of the deaths being attributed to covid 19 arent really because of covid 19. I'm not saying it is a hoax or whatever, but I believe it's being pushed as worse than it is. In my state, as of last week, we had 35,000 cases and 171 deaths. That % is so pathetically low that nobody would take it seriously if thats what was reported everywhere. Because of that I do think they have started taking liberties with adding covid as the cause of death. To make people more cautious. The percentage seems skewed when comparing some countries. USA and Italy have similar death numbers yet USA has almost 500k more cases? Of course medical resources and availability of testing will be a factor. It's almost like an infected driver could die in a car accident and they'll be like "yeah, it was Covid that got him." Exactly.
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Post by Grumpyoldman on Apr 15, 2020 13:20:52 GMT -5
Are these all direct deposit?
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Post by bad guy™ on Apr 15, 2020 13:31:25 GMT -5
Are these all direct deposit? That's all who have gotten them thus far. Read my post above to see why the delay in the paper checks got even longer.
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Post by Valbroski on Apr 15, 2020 14:49:51 GMT -5
Are these all direct deposit? Yeah, mine came through direct deposit.
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Post by JC Motors on Apr 15, 2020 16:01:14 GMT -5
I drove past where I work today and I noticed that 3 people's cars weren't there. They must have laid more people off.
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Post by ~ Cymru ~ on Apr 15, 2020 16:05:09 GMT -5
The virus is dictating the circumstances, not the government. Anyone who is trying to live his/her life like nothing is happening is oblivious. Listen to the scientific minds and act accordingly. This is simple logic. the number of deaths are made up by media to keep you in fear and all you sheep fall for it I work in health care, youre right in one sense the numbers the government are reporting is wrong. Its higher. They're not testing people over a certain age as they're unlikely to survive even with treatment instead they're being given "end of life" medication incase they do fall ill. Also this "end of life" medication isn't as readily available as it was before the pandemic. Over the last week I've dealt with 11+ deaths, only 1 of them had confirmed COVID because doctors refused to test anymore.
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Truth HuRts
Mid-Carder
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Joined on: Feb 6, 2017 23:50:56 GMT -5
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Post by Truth HuRts on Apr 15, 2020 16:54:07 GMT -5
the number of deaths are made up by media to keep you in fear and all you sheep fall for it I work in health care, youre right in one sense the numbers the government are reporting is wrong. Its higher. They're not testing people over a certain age as they're unlikely to survive even with treatment instead they're being given "end of life" medication incase they do fall ill. Also this "end of life" medication isn't as readily available as it was before the pandemic. Over the last week I've dealt with 11+ deaths, only 1 of them had confirmed COVID because doctors refused to test anymore. end of life medication wtf do people get a choice to take it?
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Post by bad guy™ on Apr 15, 2020 18:55:29 GMT -5
I work in health care, youre right in one sense the numbers the government are reporting is wrong. Its higher. They're not testing people over a certain age as they're unlikely to survive even with treatment instead they're being given "end of life" medication incase they do fall ill. Also this "end of life" medication isn't as readily available as it was before the pandemic. Over the last week I've dealt with 11+ deaths, only 1 of them had confirmed COVID because doctors refused to test anymore. end of life medication wtf do people get a choice to take it? Yep. Human euthanasia is legal in a handful of states here in the US, and in a few European countries. There's a ton of caveats to it though. 1. You MUST be of sound mind. No one with things like dementia can do it. 2. Your condition must be terminal. Traditionally it's been used on pancreatic cancer patients with weeks to live, and the only other option is pain. 3. You must be doing it of your own free will, and for your death to not be an attempt to ease any familial burdens. (Like if a rich man has money saved in a locked escrow for his kids, but they can't get it till he dies. If the old man is killing himself just to free up the funds, it's not allowed.) 4. Whether it is by pill, or injection, you must do it on your own. A nurse cannot administer it for you. They will bring you the pill or the needle, but neither they, nor family, can be the ones to do it, even if the person is handicapped. Traditionally, human euthanasia has only been used on cancer patients, or total failure of your organs with no time for a transplant. An exception can be made for partial brain failure, as long as the part that is still fine is cognizant of the choice they are making, seeing as the brain can clot and heal bruising and things like that, but when brain cells die, they die. It's the only organ in our bodies that can't repair itself which is ironic because it's the most important one. That said, COVID is absolutely brutal. Mild cases can be coped with should be OK if doctors orders are followed. But in the very severe cases, if it looks like the lungs have begun to fail as a result of the virus (it attacks our lungs mostly) and they're basically going to be on life support for the rest of their lives, there's two options depending on what the dying patient said before going under into the coma. A, if it gets too bad and the wish has been known regarding DNR orders, the person's power of attorney can have the plug pulled and turn off the respirator and have them die that way. Option B, if the person made it clear before they went into their coma, should they want to die on THEIR terms and not the virus' timeline, they can be taken off of the respirator, woken up, put on a temporary oxygen mask or sleep apnea CPAP mask so they can breathe a tiny bit while they fill out the paperwork. Once it's done, the nurse gives them the pill, or the needle is attached to their arm and they're given a button to press when they're ready, and they'll be injected and just...go to sleep. But they went out on their terms. There's a massive argument about human euthanasia. Some are vehemently against it and would rather a person stay on life support and suffer till their last day as God would have wanted. Some say that the list of approved reasons, within reason, should be expanded. That's why we don't have a federal law for or against it. All Presidents from Johnson to Trump have taken a hands off approach on it, leaving it up to the individual states to decide on the levity and the wording. It's similar to the death penalty, it's a state's right to choose if they want to allow executions for murderers or not. Human euthanasia has been a hot topic for centuries, going back to the Greeks. Someone who was going to die could either die naturally, or drink hemlock. The Romans had a similar stance as the Greeks, either natural or arsenic. It came to prominence in the western world when American physician Dr. Kevorkian, the Doctor of Death, started euthenizing patients that requested it. They had to follow the same set of rules as patients now do, but it was illegal and considered murder to aid in assisted suicide. He spent a long time in jail. Right before my father died, he had sought out Kevorkian to help him as he was totally paralyzed from the neck down, had lung, esophageal, liver, skin, ocular, stomach, and pancreatic cancers. He also had multiple sclerosis, and this was before treatments existed so with all lf those problems, the doctors at the Veteran's Hospital gave him a prescription for morophine, but he was given a full pharmaceutical bottle of it that they use to store the meds until they're dispensed and just told him tk take it as needed, and tk call for another bottle when he finished that one. This was back when no one monitored pain meds like they do now, and even today the VA is not as heavily hounded for pain med dispensation unlike other hospitals. Basically, a blind eye is USUALLY turned in aot of cases out of support for their fellow soldier who served and is now dying in agonizing pain. However, Kevorkian was unable to come to my dad as the government was on his trail so it wasn't safe for him to travel cross country knowing the legal issues he was in. That said, Kevorkian's ethical sta dards and rules for him to allow it were adopted once it was made legal in certain places. So once he was vilified as a monster, but now is heralded for doing what no one would do: help a person with a death sentence and no hope of recovery end it a on their terms rather than what's killing them I ternally. That's the history of it. I don't know if you agree or disagree, and that's fine. But by understanding the history of it all the way back to Socrates, up to where we are today, you can at least see the logistics of why it's being offered, and how bad it has to truly be for the doctors to present that option to COVID patients, putting their end of life care in, essentially, the same deadly category as inoperable, metastaticized cancer patients.
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Post by kennyw86v2 on Apr 15, 2020 19:05:06 GMT -5
end of life medication wtf do people get a choice to take it? Yep. Human euthanasia is legal in a handful of states here in the US, and in a few European countries. There's a ton of caveats to it though. 1. You MUST be of sound mind. No one with things like dementia can do it. 2. Your condition must be terminal. Traditionally it's been used on pancreatic cancer patients with weeks to live, and the only other option is pain. 3. You must be doing it of your own free will, and for your death to not be an attempt to ease any familial burdens. (Like if a rich man has money saved in a locked escrow for his kids, but they can't get it till he dies. If the old man is killing himself just to free up the funds, it's not allowed.) 4. Whether it is by pill, or injection, you must do it on your own. A nurse cannot administer it for you. They will bring you the pill or the needle, but neither they, nor family, can be the ones to do it, even if the person is handicapped. Traditionally, human euthanasia has only been used on cancer patients, or total failure of your organs with no time for a transplant. An exception can be made for partial brain failure, as long as the part that is still fine is cognizant of the choice they are making, seeing as the brain can clot and heal bruising and things like that, but when brain cells die, they die. It's the only organ in our bodies that can't repair itself which is ironic because it's the most important one. That said, COVID is absolutely brutal. Mild cases can be coped with should be OK if doctors orders are followed. But in the very severe cases, if it looks like the lungs have begun to fail as a result of the virus (it attacks our lungs mostly) and they're basically going to be on life support for the rest of their lives, there's two options depending on what the dying patient said before going under into the coma. A, if it gets too bad and the wish has been known regarding DNR orders, the person's power of attorney can have the plug pulled and turn off the respirator and have them die that way. Option B, if the person made it clear before they went into their coma, should they want to die on THEIR terms and not the virus' timeline, they can be taken off of the respirator, woken up, put on a temporary oxygen mask or sleep apnea CPAP mask so they can breathe a tiny bit while they fill out the paperwork. Once it's done, the nurse gives them the pill, or the needle is attached to their arm and they're given a button to press when they're ready, and they'll be injected and just...go to sleep. But they went out on their terms. There's a massive argument about human euthanasia. Some are vehemently against it and would rather a person stay on life support and suffer till their last day as God would have wanted. Some say that the list of approved reasons, within reason, should be expanded. That's why we don't have a federal law for or against it. All Presidents from Johnson to Trump have taken a hands off approach on it, leaving it up to the individual states to decide on the levity and the wording. It's similar to the death penalty, it's a state's right to choose if they want to allow executions for murderers or not. Human euthanasia has been a hot topic for centuries, going back to the Greeks. Someone who was going to die could either die naturally, or drink hemlock. The Romans had a similar stance as the Greeks, either natural or arsenic. It came to prominence in the western world when American physician Dr. Kevorkian, the Doctor of Death, started euthenizing patients that requested it. They had to follow the same set of rules as patients now do, but it was illegal and considered murder to aid in assisted suicide. He spent a long time in jail. Right before my father died, he had sought out Kevorkian to help him as he was totally paralyzed from the neck down, had lung, esophageal, liver, skin, ocular, stomach, and pancreatic cancers. He also had multiple sclerosis, and this was before treatments existed so with all lf those problems, the doctors at the Veteran's Hospital gave him a prescription for morophine, but he was given a full pharmaceutical bottle of it that they use to store the meds until they're dispensed and just told him tk take it as needed, and tk call for another bottle when he finished that one. This was back when no one monitored pain meds like they do now, and even today the VA is not as heavily hounded for pain med dispensation unlike other hospitals. Basically, a blind eye is USUALLY turned in aot of cases out of support for their fellow soldier who served and is now dying in agonizing pain. However, Kevorkian was unable to come to my dad as the government was on his trail so it wasn't safe for him to travel cross country knowing the legal issues he was in. That said, Kevorkian's ethical sta dards and rules for him to allow it were adopted once it was made legal in certain places. So once he was vilified as a monster, but now is heralded for doing what no one would do: help a person with a death sentence and no hope of recovery end it a on their terms rather than what's killing them I ternally. That's the history of it. I don't know if you agree or disagree, and that's fine. But by understanding the history of it all the way back to Socrates, up to where we are today, you can at least see the logistics of why it's being offered, and how bad it has to truly be for the doctors to present that option to COVID patients, putting their end of life care in, essentially, the same deadly category as inoperable, metastaticized cancer patients. Jesus christ. I had no idea any of that was legal. Mind ![](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wfcensored.gif) .
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Post by k5 on Apr 15, 2020 20:33:54 GMT -5
^ don’t want to quote that whole post again but I was gonna say the exact same thing: total mind
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Post by ~ Cymru ~ on Apr 15, 2020 20:42:59 GMT -5
I work in health care, youre right in one sense the numbers the government are reporting is wrong. Its higher. They're not testing people over a certain age as they're unlikely to survive even with treatment instead they're being given "end of life" medication incase they do fall ill. Also this "end of life" medication isn't as readily available as it was before the pandemic. Over the last week I've dealt with 11+ deaths, only 1 of them had confirmed COVID because doctors refused to test anymore. end of life medication wtf do people get a choice to take it? It's to make them comfortable when they're dying. The people under our care are fully dependent on the staff for all aspects of their day to day life. The alternative to not taking it would be gasping for breath as your internal organs shut down. Edit: I don't know if my original post was mis-interpereted there but people who aren't ill have the medication available but not in use. It only gets out into use if the person falls ill and isn't fighting the virus. They're given a fair chance to fight it but at their advanced age and with underlying health issues they don't have much of a chance.
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Post by bWo on Apr 15, 2020 21:26:35 GMT -5
Anyone consider the fact that they keep saying loads of people are infected but not showing symptoms? There's no way to put a DIRECT number on anything, but that would mean that the mortality rate is FAR LESS then what we're seeing. Those who were sick and got better but didn't even realize it would go into the "recovered" category. The percentage of fatalities would go down because they're now coming from a much larger sample, which would make this virus a lot "deadly" then we were thinking. Thoughts? The number of fatalities is almost certainly greater than what is being reported. The numbers are based on people known to have the virus prior to treatment, then officially succumbing to it. There are most definitely people who didn't have access to testing, declined treatment, or slipped through the cracks of record-keeping as hospitals were overloaded and understaffed. It's currently at 130,000 worldwide with over 29,000 in the US. Those are truly scary numbers, especially since so many hot spots have yet to peak. How much of a difference would the number of "perceived" deaths make when putting it up against the number of "perceived" recoveries though? Consider the following, Numbers like that would definitely suggest that the recovery rate is higher. Those people were tested for one reason or another and were found to have covid even though it wasn't affecting them. Those "positive tests" and "recoveries" are counted. Had they not been tested they would have recovered never knowing they had it, and those "positive tests" and "recoveries" wouldn't have been counted. If those asymptomatic numbers are accurate, imagine how many people had it, didn't get tested because they had no reason to think they should, and then recovered. Those missing "infected" and "recovered" numbers would go a long way when looking at accurate mortality rates, especially if we're talking about numbers like 50 to 80% of people feeling no effects. That has the potential to drastically change the numbers.
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