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Post by bad guy™ on Mar 3, 2020 19:30:30 GMT -5
Hoover was. He was the second worst ever behind Buchanan. I mean, I'll give you Jimmy B for sure, and Hoover was definitely pretty terrible...but man...Coolidge, Andrew Johnson, Pierce...I don't know that I can put Hoover as high as second worst. Maybe we can just lump them all together in one big turd ball and call it Buchooverlidgesonpie. I tend to rank them on what legacy they left immediately before and after their presidency, if any, and what the ramifications are today. Also, the amount of lives ruined/blood on their hands. I also remove WHH because the bastard served a month. Johnson is forever going to go down with a very, very interesting legacy. He's DIRECTLY responsible for the Trail of Tears/Indian Removal Act. The worst Presidential edict, and second worst court and constitutional up after the allowance of Dredd Scot, mainly because the courts had no real control over Jackson. He, and his successors up to Lincoln's inauguration are some of the worst men to exist in this country, let alone be President. Lack of empathy and humanity. But, Jackson is also one of the greatest military minds in our history. Brilliant tactician both during the Revolution and the War of 1812. He did save this country, sadly, so how he, Harrison, Polk, Taylor, and Pierce should be remembered is "bad, but effective*" with that * being their effectiveness in getting policy passed was sublime, but their policies were worse than what the fictional lizard people could ever do to us. Buchanan chose to sit on his ass and lead to nearly a million Americans dying. Hoover literally ed the entire planet over, hurting billions. Sure, he absolutely wasn't the cause of the Depression. Wall Street and Robber Barrons had run roughshod for decades, so of course the floor would eventually fall out: see, Bush Jr. Difference between Hoover and Bush, however, was while they were both inept to handle the situation in front of them, Bush was out of office much, much quicker than Hoover, plus Roosevelt would eventually inherit a very hostile Germany ready for war and the subsequent post war economic miracle. Hoover believed the Rockefeller motto: "If it ain't hurting me, it ain't my problem. The market will fix itself." Obama got in not a minute too late to clean up the mess left by Bush's dumb decisions. Hoover would sit on this idea that the market was a living entity capable of self heal with enough time for four years. Meanwhile Hoover was also not paying WWI benefits promised, and also doing jack crap about the Dust Bowl...oh, but he could get that in dam built right in quick. ...I have strong opinions on this matter. The Jacksonians are unforgivable, but comparing how many people got ed over by each administration, Hoover takes the cake even if he wasn't promoting freaking genocide of indigenous individuals.
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Post by Tim of thee on Mar 3, 2020 19:40:41 GMT -5
There is zero percent chance that this thread survives until November for very obvious reasons. I'll just say that Democrats have fought harder against Bernie in the last 72 hours than they ever have against Trump, and if they force Biden through, he'll get absolutely annihilated by Trump in the general. Isn’t Sanders an Independent though?
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Post by TheLastDude on Mar 3, 2020 19:55:45 GMT -5
I mean, I'll give you Jimmy B for sure, and Hoover was definitely pretty terrible...but man...Coolidge, Andrew Johnson, Pierce...I don't know that I can put Hoover as high as second worst. Maybe we can just lump them all together in one big turd ball and call it Buchooverlidgesonpie. I tend to rank them on what legacy they left immediately before and after their presidency, if any, and what the ramifications are today. Also, the amount of lives ruined/blood on their hands. I also remove WHH because the bastard served a month. Johnson is forever going to go down with a very, very interesting legacy. He's DIRECTLY responsible for the Trail of Tears/Indian Removal Act. The worst Presidential edict, and second worst court and constitutional up after the allowance of Dredd Scot, mainly because the courts had no real control over Jackson. He, and his successors up to Lincoln's inauguration are some of the worst men to exist in this country, let alone be President. Lack of empathy and humanity. But, Jackson is also one of the greatest military minds in our history. Brilliant tactician both during the Revolution and the War of 1812. He did save this country, sadly, so how he, Harrison, Polk, Taylor, and Pierce should be remembered is "bad, but effective*" with that * being their effectiveness in getting policy passed was sublime, but their policies were worse than what the fictional lizard people could ever do to us. Buchanan chose to sit on his ass and lead to nearly a million Americans dying. Hoover literally ed the entire planet over, hurting billions. Sure, he absolutely wasn't the cause of the Depression. Wall Street and Robber Barrons had run roughshod for decades, so of course the floor would eventually fall out: see, Bush Jr. Difference between Hoover and Bush, however, was while they were both inept to handle the situation in front of them, Bush was out of office much, much quicker than Hoover, plus Roosevelt would eventually inherit a very hostile Germany ready for war and the subsequent post war economic miracle. Hoover believed the Rockefeller motto: "If it ain't hurting me, it ain't my problem. The market will fix itself." Obama got in not a minute too late to clean up the mess left by Bush's dumb decisions. Hoover would sit on this idea that the market was a living entity capable of self heal with enough time for four years. Meanwhile Hoover was also not paying WWI benefits promised, and also doing jack crap about the Dust Bowl...oh, but he could get that in dam built right in quick. ...I have strong opinions on this matter. The Jacksonians are unforgivable, but comparing how many people got ed over by each administration, Hoover takes the cake even if he wasn't promoting freaking genocide of indigenous individuals. All very good points. I see where you're coming from for sure. I tend to look on Pierce as being a big part of the train barreling down the tracks toward the Civil War because he allowed himself to be used as a tool by other people. Now obviously, no one man brought it about, but he didn't want to repeal the Missouri Compromise, several of his closest advisers thought it was a bad idea even though some of them were on the side of popular sovereignty, but he allowed himself to be swayed by Douglas. One could always argue that even if the K-N Act hadn't been put through, repealing the Compromise, that something else could have just come along and stoked the fire anyway, I mean really, a lot of people were itching for it, but it's always left a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to him. Now Buchanan? Hug Buchanan.
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Post by RSCTom on Mar 3, 2020 20:25:10 GMT -5
It's looking pretty early like Biden could come up big and get the nomination. Not even close to my first choice but I'm also fine with it, other than the fact that we will have to hear about Burisma nonsense through this election cycle.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the 'safe' choice is getting selected but maybe I am a little surprised?
No matter as I would vote for a potato before I voted for the current holder of the office.
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Post by johnnyb on Mar 3, 2020 20:35:43 GMT -5
It's looking pretty early like Biden could come up big and get the nomination. Not even close to my first choice but I'm also fine with it, other than the fact that we will have to hear about Burisma nonsense through this election cycle. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the 'safe' choice is getting selected but maybe I am a little surprised? No matter as I would vote for a potato before I voted for the current holder of the office. Biden would be marginally better than Trump but man.... it's depressing that we allow special interest groups to set the bar that low. If it's Biden vs. Trump, I'm still voting in November, but I'm leaving the Presidential bracket blank. And I suspect that is more than most people under 30 will do.
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Post by Tim of thee on Mar 3, 2020 20:41:25 GMT -5
There should be an age limit of when you can run.
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Post by figurecollector on Mar 3, 2020 20:57:00 GMT -5
There should be an age limit of when you can run. There is. You have to be at least age 36. JK. I know what you mean, though. I am not sure I want another president over 70, but we are going to have one. One never knows how their health will hold out and you do not get an election for a VP getting the job if they cannot manage it.
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Post by rkmo: The FOCUS Method on Mar 3, 2020 21:13:04 GMT -5
It's looking pretty early like Biden could come up big and get the nomination. Not even close to my first choice but I'm also fine with it, other than the fact that we will have to hear about Burisma nonsense through this election cycle. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the 'safe' choice is getting selected but maybe I am a little surprised? No matter as I would vote for a potato before I voted for the current holder of the office. Get me my "POTATO 2020" bumper sticker now dammit lol
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Post by bad guy™ on Mar 3, 2020 22:15:49 GMT -5
So, the DNC has gotten its way again. Even without California, this is uber yikes considering one week ago Biden was forgetting the office he was going for, and his campaign was on life support. Nivro™ how much does a progressive soul sell for in your base? Asking for a friend.
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Post by Tim of thee on Mar 3, 2020 22:36:14 GMT -5
There should be an age limit of when you can run. There is. You have to be at least age 36. JK. I know what you mean, though. I am not sure I want another president over 70, but we are going to have one. One never knows how their health will hold out and you do not get an election for a VP getting the job if they cannot manage it. I can’t for the life of me think of a reason to work after you are eligible to retire.
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Post by bad guy™ on Mar 3, 2020 22:58:55 GMT -5
There is. You have to be at least age 36. JK. I know what you mean, though. I am not sure I want another president over 70, but we are going to have one. One never knows how their health will hold out and you do not get an election for a VP getting the job if they cannot manage it. I can’t for the life of me think of a reason to work after you are eligible to retire. Megalomania.
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Post by Tim of thee on Mar 3, 2020 23:10:48 GMT -5
I can’t for the life of me think of a reason to work after you are eligible to retire. Megalomania. Once I can retire I damn well be
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Post by slappy on Mar 3, 2020 23:33:39 GMT -5
There is no way Warren can justify staying in after tonight. Hell, after New Hampshire there was no way but she stubbornly sticks it out.
Bloomberg is also done after tonight. I'm glad because I'm sick of seeing his commercials.
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Post by Tim of thee on Mar 4, 2020 0:18:52 GMT -5
Bloomberg is also done after tonight. I'm glad because I'm sick of seeing his commercials. He failed his tryout. I’m happy his goose is cooked. Those ads were on my TV and Radio all day!!
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Post by ¡Twist Of Lime Green Jello! on Mar 4, 2020 2:06:50 GMT -5
I don’t want to be overconfident and say that this’ll be a Trump landslide, but I don’t see Trump losing come November. Bernie’s adoration for actual dictators or Biden’s constant gaffes (150 million gun deaths since 2007!?) will be Trump’s main point of attack if they become the nominee, and he hits pretty hard when he does attack. I don’t see Pocahontas getting the nominee. She’s extremely unlikeable and has a habit of playing the race and gender card anytime she can. Bloomberg just seems to be there for a lol rather than a serious interest in becoming president. When he doesn’t get the nominee, it’ll be interesting to see if the winner will accept his money if he chooses to donate. Has Bernie given a price tag yet of how much his policies will cost? It’s obviously going to cost trillions, tens of trillions. Even if the democrats take the house and senate later this year, I don’t see them allocating that much money. He’s basically campaigning on ideas that aren’t achievable. Quick note, let’s keep this civil everyone. It is possible to disagree with someone without having a go at them. I hear people give Bernie crap for not completely disowning dictators. But you do know that Trump has been more BFF with all of our dictator enemies than anyone else right? Bernie has nothing to gain by praising Castro and his “literacy programs”, whereas Trump sucks up to the likes of Kim in order to create peace.
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Post by slappy on Mar 4, 2020 10:23:17 GMT -5
Bloomberg is official out.
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Post by Hulkster2001 on Mar 4, 2020 10:31:33 GMT -5
Not shocked
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What?
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Feb 15, 2020 10:12:36 GMT -5
Posts: 163
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Post by What? on Mar 4, 2020 10:57:23 GMT -5
Bernie has nothing to gain by praising Castro and his “literacy programs”, whereas Trump sucks up to the likes of Kim in order to create peace. What peace?
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Post by Deep Figure Value on Mar 4, 2020 11:11:26 GMT -5
I guess as a cord cutter, I don't wind up seeing a lot of the ads these folks take out, but man, do some people take that barrage to heart. My dad (a staunch, hard right, Trump lovin' Republican) usually finds one Dem candidate to really grind the axe against each cycle, and for reasons I still can't quite wrap my head around, it was Tom f'n Steyer, of all people, who managed to weasel right under his skin this time around. I remember going over there the day after Iowa to pick up my son, and he said, almost wistfully, that he doesn't much care who becomes the nominee, but he was just so, so, so glad that Tom Steyer did very poorly in Iowa.
Like, I could get Bernie, or Warren, or Biden, or Mayor Pete...but there was unequivocally, indisputably zero risk that Tom Steyer would ever clinch the nomination, much less find himself seated in the Oval Office come January 20.
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Post by punksnotdead on Mar 4, 2020 11:41:29 GMT -5
Beto, Pete and Amy boxed Sanders out last night. I think Klobuchar primed herself for the VP spot if she's willing to take it. She's a big push for those midwest states. Her influence last night was pretty impressive.
I understand the DNC's mindset. They think they can appeal to moderates, maybe even Republicans, who are turned off by Trump. And I'm sure there are plenty of those voters, but I think that totally ignores the fact that Joe isn't inspiring anyone to rush to the polls for him. That's where I tend to think Trump is going to crush him on the way to reelection. I also think Trump is going to verbally dunk on Joe for the next 8 months. That might not matter to anyone with an IQ over 100, but it will create a general perception that Joe is soft if he can't combat that rhetoric.
Maybe the atmosphere towards Trump has changed enough in four years that a Trump vs anti-Trump election will turn out differently. That said, it feels like we're leaning into the same path in 2020 as we saw in 2016. Wherein, disheartened Bernie supporters don't vote and largely give the election to Trump.
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