threehgame
Main Eventer
Beyond Bored By You and Your Wrestling
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Post by threehgame on May 20, 2012 1:06:42 GMT -5
Hard to say. Austin got hot the last few years of the decade but he got to Hogan status pretty quickly and re-created the wrestling landscape.
Undertaker worked with everyone and was the Andre figure of wrestling. The crack on him would be he had many big feuds and matches but they always slide down the list of his opponent's greatest matches.
Bret started the decade slow and ended it in horrible fashion but was the corner stone of the WWF for a time. Bret is the best worker of the 3 but was also champion during the darkest years for the company.
It all comes down to personal preference and I go with Undertaker. He could go with anyone, create incredible matches, sell merchandise, headline events across the globe and was a true character in the ring.
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jakksking1
Main Eventer
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Posts: 2,843
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Post by jakksking1 on May 20, 2012 7:46:03 GMT -5
Bret... in the 90's he won: 1 Royal Rumble 1 King of the Ring 1 WWF Tag Team Championship 2 WWF Intercontinental Championships 5 WWF World Championships 1 WCW Tag Team Championship 4 WCW United States Championships 2 WCW World Championships he also main evented 3 WrestleMania's and 1 Starrcade, each company's respective "Big Event" ,and also held the WWF World Championship for 654 days , the most time of anyone in the 90's. he was also named #1 in the PWI 500 for 2 consecutive years (1993 and 1994). and he created one of the best and most hated stable in WWF (and wrestling) history, the Hart Foundation 1997. all this in addition to the numerous great matches he had with Steve Austin, Razor Ramon,Randy Savage, Mr. Perfect,Bam Bam Bigelow,Kevin Nash,Owen Hart, British Bulldog,Shawn Michaels, Undertaker,etc. , not to mention his position as the #1 guy in the WWF on a consistent basis after Hulk Hogan's departure. when i think of the WWF in the late 90's,and THE star of the late 90's,i think of Steve Austin. when i think of THE star for the ENTIRE 90's, i think of Bret Hart. Just to play Devil's Advocate, in the 1990s alone, Steve Austin won 2 Royal Rumbles (1997, 1998) 1 King of the Ring (1996) 4 WWF Championship reigns 2 Intercontinental Title reigns 3 Tag Team Championship Reigns 2 WCW US Titles 1 WCW TV Title 1 WCW Tag Team Championship And if you want to go down the PWI Awards route: 2 Wrestlers of the Year (1998,99), PWI 500 #1 (1998,1999), 2 Feuds of the Year, 2 Biggest Box Office Draws of the Year (one of the most important imo). |
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Post by Nivro™ on May 20, 2012 12:53:13 GMT -5
Bret... in the 90's he won: 1 Royal Rumble 1 King of the Ring 1 WWF Tag Team Championship 2 WWF Intercontinental Championships 5 WWF World Championships 1 WCW Tag Team Championship 4 WCW United States Championships 2 WCW World Championships he also main evented 3 WrestleMania's and 1 Starrcade, each company's respective "Big Event" ,and also held the WWF World Championship for 654 days , the most time of anyone in the 90's. he was also named #1 in the PWI 500 for 2 consecutive years (1993 and 1994). and he created one of the best and most hated stable in WWF (and wrestling) history, the Hart Foundation 1997. all this in addition to the numerous great matches he had with Steve Austin, Razor Ramon,Randy Savage, Mr. Perfect,Bam Bam Bigelow,Kevin Nash,Owen Hart, British Bulldog,Shawn Michaels, Undertaker,etc. , not to mention his position as the #1 guy in the WWF on a consistent basis after Hulk Hogan's departure. when i think of the WWF in the late 90's,and THE star of the late 90's,i think of Steve Austin. when i think of THE star for the ENTIRE 90's, i think of Bret Hart. Just to play Devil's Advocate, in the 1990s alone, Steve Austin won 2 Royal Rumbles (1997, 1998) 1 King of the Ring (1996) 4 WWF Championship reigns 2 Intercontinental Title reigns 3 Tag Team Championship Reigns 2 WCW US Titles 1 WCW TV Title 1 WCW Tag Team Championship And if you want to go down the PWI Awards route: 2 Wrestlers of the Year (1998,99), PWI 500 #1 (1998,1999), 2 Feuds of the Year, 2 Biggest Box Office Draws of the Year (one of the most important imo). I posted this one page back, but just an FYI..He has 2 Television titles. While he carried the NWA belt, WCW had long since been broken away from the NWA, they just never changed the design. |
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Post by mikey1974 on May 20, 2012 13:03:56 GMT -5
basically,this is going to come down,neck and neck to the wire, between Bret Hart and Steve Austin,and in the end it'll be decided by personal preference,and how you feel about "dominance"...
Bret Hart was a greatwrestler for most of the 90's, but was only dominant for short periods of time, they were in little,bite-sized nuggets - he's be World Champion,then drop the belt,the be feuding with Issac Yankem, a pirate, or Jerry Lawler in "Kiss my Foot" matches....this was a maddening pattern showing Vince's unwillingness to fully commit to Bret...
Steve Austin was a great wrestler for most of the 90's , but was only dominant for about 3 years towards the end, but showed Vince's willingness to commit to Austin and make him the man,as even when he wasn't specifically in the Title Hunt, the company's storylines and plans still revolved around him....
so,is it dominance over nearly a whole decade,but only in little spurts over that time? or complete dominance for an extended,consecutive period of time,even if it only measured up to a few years?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2012 14:01:31 GMT -5
basically,this is going to come down,neck and neck to the wire, between Bret Hart and Steve Austin,and in the end it'll be decided by personal preference,and how you feel about "dominance"... Bret Hart was a greatwrestler for most of the 90's, but was only dominant for short periods of time, they were in little,bite-sized nuggets - he's be World Champion,then drop the belt,the be feuding with Issac Yankem, a pirate, or Jerry Lawler in "Kiss my Foot" matches....this was a maddening pattern showing Vince's unwillingness to fully commit to Bret... Steve Austin was a great wrestler for most of the 90's , but was only dominant for about 3 years towards the end, but showed Vince's willingness to commit to Austin and make him the man,as even when he wasn't specifically in the Title Hunt, the company's storylines and plans still revolved around him.... so,is it dominance over nearly a whole decade,but only in little spurts over that time? or complete dominance for an extended,consecutive period of time,even if it only measured up to a few years? The fact that Bret wasn't main eventing everything was good though. It meant that some of the midcard talent like Lawler and Yankem got good tv time against a top star. And allowed for other people to be relevant such as Diesel, Shawn and Undertaker. Austin dominating everything, Cena dominating everything and Hogan dominating everything is boring. |
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jakksking1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 2, 2011 14:45:41 GMT -5
Posts: 2,843
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Post by jakksking1 on May 20, 2012 17:44:37 GMT -5
basically,this is going to come down,neck and neck to the wire, between Bret Hart and Steve Austin,and in the end it'll be decided by personal preference,and how you feel about "dominance"... Bret Hart was a greatwrestler for most of the 90's, but was only dominant for short periods of time, they were in little,bite-sized nuggets - he's be World Champion,then drop the belt,the be feuding with Issac Yankem, a pirate, or Jerry Lawler in "Kiss my Foot" matches....this was a maddening pattern showing Vince's unwillingness to fully commit to Bret... Steve Austin was a great wrestler for most of the 90's , but was only dominant for about 3 years towards the end, but showed Vince's willingness to commit to Austin and make him the man,as even when he wasn't specifically in the Title Hunt, the company's storylines and plans still revolved around him.... so,is it dominance over nearly a whole decade,but only in little spurts over that time? or complete dominance for an extended,consecutive period of time,even if it only measured up to a few years? The fact that Bret wasn't main eventing everything was good though. It meant that some of the midcard talent like Lawler and Yankem got good tv time against a top star. And allowed for other people to be relevant such as Diesel, Shawn and Undertaker. Austin dominating everything, Cena dominating everything and Hogan dominating everything is boring. It also meant that the ratings were in the toilet and the company was on the verge of going out. I love Bret, and think he is a top 3 in ring talent, but the company almost went out of business with him and Michaels at the helm. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2012 23:09:54 GMT -5
I never understood the argument for "whoever is champion gets blamed for business being down".
I'm sorry but Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels are considered two of the greatest wrestlers of all time. Business was down because of crap like Mantaur, Isaac Yankem, Aldo Montoya, etc. and the fact that wrestling was just in a down period.
You could put Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels as the main event for EVERY show in the 90s but if the undercard sucks and wrestling is just in a down period then there is no control over that...
In fact, Bret and Shawn should be commended for being able to hold at least SOME interest in the product during that time period.
1995 freakin' sucked with the exception of Bret and Shawn.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2012 23:38:20 GMT -5
Hard to say. Austin got hot the last few years of the decade but he got to Hogan status pretty quickly and re-created the wrestling landscape. Undertaker worked with everyone and was the Andre figure of wrestling. The crack on him would be he had many big feuds and matches but they always slide down the list of his opponent's greatest matches. Bret started the decade slow and ended it in horrible fashion but was the corner stone of the WWF for a time. Bret is the best worker of the 3 but was also champion during the darkest years for the company. It all comes down to personal preference and I go with Undertaker. He could go with anyone, create incredible matches, sell merchandise, headline events across the globe and was a true character in the ring. Great post, you essentially put down what I would've said; agree 100%. The best wrestler for me in the '90s is not American; hell, didn't even wrestle regularly in America. It goes to the late, great Mitsuharu Misawa, who had unbelievably breathtaking matches against the likes of Jumbo Tsuruta, Stan Hansen, Kenta Kobashi and Toshiaki Kawada. The amount of tremendous matches he had throughout the '90s solidified him to me as 'THE' wrestler of that era. RIP Misawa. |
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Post by Nivro™ on May 20, 2012 23:55:14 GMT -5
I never understood the argument for "whoever is champion gets blamed for business being down". I'm sorry but Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels are considered two of the greatest wrestlers of all time. Business was down because of crap like Mantaur, Isaac Yankem, Aldo Montoya, etc. and the fact that wrestling was just in a down period. You could put Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels as the main event for EVERY show in the 90s but if the undercard sucks and wrestling is just in a down period then there is no control over that... In fact, Bret and Shawn should be commended for being able to hold at least SOME interest in the product during that time period. 1995 freakin' sucked with the exception of Bret and Shawn. Its not different then in any sport. Just like if a team has a high paid player and that team doesnt succeed, it will fall back on the player getting paid the most, whether it was directly his fault or not. Take the Yankees for example. Every time they fail to win a world series someone makes sure to talk about how Alex Rodriguez is making 250 million dollars and not producing....never mind the fact that nobody else on the roster produced either. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2012 15:07:15 GMT -5
I never understood the argument for "whoever is champion gets blamed for business being down". I'm sorry but Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels are considered two of the greatest wrestlers of all time. Business was down because of crap like Mantaur, Isaac Yankem, Aldo Montoya, etc. and the fact that wrestling was just in a down period. You could put Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels as the main event for EVERY show in the 90s but if the undercard sucks and wrestling is just in a down period then there is no control over that... In fact, Bret and Shawn should be commended for being able to hold at least SOME interest in the product during that time period. 1995 freakin' sucked with the exception of Bret and Shawn. Exactly, also remember that at this time wrestling was enduring steroid and drug scandals, the outing that it was fake and the rise of a legitimate threat. The WWE survived BECAUSE of Bret Hart. |
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Daniel F'n Bryan
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 24, 2011 0:33:48 GMT -5
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Post by Daniel F'n Bryan on May 21, 2012 16:29:14 GMT -5
I never understood the argument for "whoever is champion gets blamed for business being down". I'm sorry but Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels are considered two of the greatest wrestlers of all time. Business was down because of crap like Mantaur, Isaac Yankem, Aldo Montoya, etc. and the fact that wrestling was just in a down period. You could put Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels as the main event for EVERY show in the 90s but if the undercard sucks and wrestling is just in a down period then there is no control over that... In fact, Bret and Shawn should be commended for being able to hold at least SOME interest in the product during that time period. 1995 freakin' sucked with the exception of Bret and Shawn. Exactly, also remember that at this time wrestling was enduring steroid and drug scandals, the outing that it was fake and the rise of a legitimate threat. The WWE survived BECAUSE of Bret Hart. And Shawn, And Taker, And Diesel AND Razor. I hate when people claim Bret was the savior of the WWI in that time. Those 5 guys together kept the WWF afloat. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2012 17:01:26 GMT -5
Exactly, also remember that at this time wrestling was enduring steroid and drug scandals, the outing that it was fake and the rise of a legitimate threat. The WWE survived BECAUSE of Bret Hart. And Shawn, And Taker, And Diesel AND Razor. I hate when people claim Bret was the savior of the WWI in that time. Those 5 guys together kept the WWF afloat. Bret was the flagholder. He's the main one who gets the blame and he's also the main reason it survived. |
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June
Main Eventer
High Fives All Around!!!
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Post by June on May 22, 2012 9:49:21 GMT -5
I like Bret, I really do, but he was being phased out as soon as he won the WWF title. Vince never believed in him 100%, which is why Yoko was given the title, and then Diesel, and HBK.
Bret is one of the all time great supporting characters.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2012 16:44:34 GMT -5
I like Bret, I really do, but he was being phased out as soon as he won the WWF title. Vince never believed in him 100%, which is why Yoko was given the title, and then Diesel, and HBK. Bret is one of the all time great supporting characters. That's true. I don't think Vince liked the idea of having a technical flagholder. He liked big, muscular guys and monsters. Yokozuna was never a flagholder per say, he was the equivilent of The Undertaker beating Hogan. Vince tried Luger, Diesel and Shawn, but the crowd wanted Bret. |
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June
Main Eventer
High Fives All Around!!!
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Post by June on May 23, 2012 10:16:38 GMT -5
HBK was not a flag holder either, he like Bret was best suited for a supporting role. The only guys capable of carrying the WWF flag aside from Hogan in the 90's were :
Austin
Rock
Warrior
Sid
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Post by cordless2016 on May 23, 2012 10:38:21 GMT -5
Bret. From 92-97, Bret was the man. Austin took over from 98 onward, but before then, Bret was busting his butt for most of the 90s.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2012 10:48:12 GMT -5
HBK was not a flag holder either, he like Bret was best suited for a supporting role. The only guys capable of carrying the WWF flag aside from Hogan in the 90's were : Austin Rock Warrior Sid Bret (followed by Austin) is probably the only person who even comes close to the popularity that Hogan held. I don't think Sid could carry anything to be honest. He completely failed as a champion, and as a wrestler in general. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2012 12:27:28 GMT -5
Sid and Warrior were too short term as champions to be compared to Hogan in any way, shape or form,
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Post by OmegaGaijin on May 23, 2012 13:03:33 GMT -5
Bret Hart in overall, but could live with Austin 'edging' him due to his insane rise in the late 90's.
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Post by Chicago on May 23, 2012 13:12:48 GMT -5
Without even having read any of the other replies first (aside from the poll results), my vote goes to Bret Hart for "Wrestler of the '90s."
Close second would go to Steve Austin, followed by Hulk Hogan, Shawn Michaels, The Rock, Undertaker and Diesel (excluding the other option/those not mentioned).
To me, Bret Hart is the favorite because he represents both the old school and the new school of professional wrestling in North America as good as anyone.
He was the best worker of his generation, making virtually everyone around him better and getting the most out of his opponents. He helped revolutionize the belief that "small men" could draw business and be seen as a legitimate threat to the monsters and larger-than-life figures that preceded him.
He was far from the best talker of his time, but he progressed at it and excelled in spurts (notably his 1997 WWF heel run). He had classic rivalries and matches with members of his family, such as Owen and Bulldog, as well as other big names like Perfect, Austin, 'Taker, Backlund, Yokozuna, Razor, Diesel and Shawn Michaels.
Hell, he tore it up with the likes of Hakushi and 1-2-3 Kid on occasion; there was nothing that Bret Hart could not do in the '90s.
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