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Post by JokerFC on Dec 27, 2018 14:35:09 GMT -5
Bischoff is full of it if he wants us to believe that the finish wasnt changed to "keep Hogan strong." Regardless of if he had doubts about Sting's ability to carry the title that night, they still put the belt on him, so why not send the fans home happy, put him over strong as was the supposed original plan and then figure the rest out later? They obviously didnt have faith in him long term since his title reign was so sub-par anyway, and Hogan had the title back by April. Bischoff even says that Sting seemed to think he was going to get screwed somehow at the end of all this build up- and turns out he was right! Good Lord!!!!! Ill have to check this out
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Post by k5 on Jan 6, 2019 1:09:43 GMT -5
Bischoff is full of it if he wants us to believe that the finish wasnt changed to "keep Hogan strong." Regardless of if he had doubts about Sting's ability to carry the title that night, they still put the belt on him, so why not send the fans home happy, put him over strong as was the supposed original plan and then figure the rest out later? They obviously didnt have faith in him long term since his title reign was so sub-par anyway, and Hogan had the title back by April. Bischoff even says that Sting seemed to think he was going to get screwed somehow at the end of all this build up- and turns out he was right! yep, add in the fact that bischoff claims that nick patrick’s fast count wasn’t planned and was something nick just did - and faced absolutely no backlash for, refereeing the very next night on nitro... just ridiculous.
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Post by JokerFC on Jan 6, 2019 12:36:44 GMT -5
Its unbelievable how this night went down. In fact its absolutely ridiculous.
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Post by LingardRashfordMartial on Jan 21, 2019 15:48:12 GMT -5
Biggest botch of all time
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Post by JokerFC on Jan 22, 2019 5:48:58 GMT -5
Biggest botch of all time yup. An angle that began in September 1996....15 months in the making. Blown to sh*t because of ego.
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Post by cordless2016 on Aug 20, 2019 21:35:51 GMT -5
I’ve been watching some WCW lately and watched SuperBrawl 8 (1998) for the first time in years. I had forgotten how dominant Hogan was booked against Sting in this match. The Starcade match was a debacle, but this was just as bad (it’s just not as memorable since this match didn’t blow 15 months worth of buildup).
They rush a rematch after stupidly stripping Sting of the title instead of letting him run through the other nWo members. The match is about 17 minutes, and for most of the first 10 minutes Hogan simply dominates the match. Sting literally got no offense during this time. He FINALLY got some offense after an eternity by using Hogan’s belt against him, only to quickly lose that momentum by missing a splash into the guardrail. Hogan dominates much of the rest of the match until the Savage interference leads to Stings win. Sting even had Hogan in the Scorpion Deathlock for about 30 seconds before Hogan literally got right back up as soon as the hold was released.
This whole feud was botched and Bischoff’s 83 Week podcast on this was total BS. Yes Sting may have been messed up behind the scenes, but it never seemed to affect his performances at all. Hogan once claimed Sting was in terrible shape, but he legit looked better than most guys on the roster at the time. This just came down to Hogan not wanting to do the job, and both matches turned into giant clusterf****.
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Post by MKSavage on Aug 21, 2019 9:44:28 GMT -5
I’ve been watching some WCW lately and watched SuperBrawl 8 (1998) for the first time in years. I had forgotten how dominant Hogan was booked against Sting in this match. The Starcade match was a debacle, but this was just as bad (it’s just not as memorable since this match didn’t blow 15 months worth of buildup). They rush a rematch after stupidly stripping Sting of the title instead of letting him run through the other nWo members. The match is about 17 minutes, and for most of the first 10 minutes Hogan simply dominates the match. Sting literally got no offense during this time. He FINALLY got some offense after an eternity by using Hogan’s belt against him, only to quickly lose that momentum by missing a splash into the guardrail. Hogan dominates much of the rest of the match until the Savage interference leads to Stings win. Sting even had Hogan in the Scorpion Deathlock for about 30 seconds before Hogan literally got right back up as soon as the hold was released. This whole feud was botched and Bischoff’s 83 Week podcast on this was total BS. Yes Sting may have been messed up behind the scenes, but it never seemed to affect his performances at all. Hogan once claimed Sting was in terrible shape, but he legit looked better than most guys on the roster at the time. This just came down to Hogan not wanting to do the job, and both matches turned into giant clusterf****. Yeah, they truly messed this up. One of the greatest builds to a match that I can remember and they screwed it up because Hogan didn't like the way Sting looked (not as muscular or tan as he had been in years past, only recently have I heard that he was "messed up" behind the scenes). I was listening to a Kevin Sullivan interview a little while back and he talked about how he pitched some ideas to Hogan about working with Bret when Bret first arrived in WCW and all Hogan said was that just doesn't work for me, brother, what else you got. Kevin asked why and Hogan replied because that guy (Bret) use to do jobs for me back in the 80s - I guess Hogan missed the previous 8-10 years of Bret's career when he was tag team champion (twice), IC champion (twice), and WWF champion (5 times). It looks like a lot of good things could have happened if Hogan didn't get in the way of creative. On a side note, if what Kevin Sullivan is saying is true then what Bret has been saying for the past two decades is true, it appears Hogan did screw Bret in his WCW run - at least somewhat.
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Post by PJ on Aug 23, 2019 5:08:56 GMT -5
Well, I can believe that Sting may have been messed up behind the scenes then, because that was right before he became born again. Pretty sure he detailed how he was messed up in “Into the Light”
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Post by cordless2016 on Aug 25, 2019 12:59:34 GMT -5
Continuing with my WCW 1998 binge watch, what makes this all worse is the incoherent stories (which contradicts Bischoff’s podcast where he always says they cared about stories and where they went).
After the SuperBrawl debacle, Sting went on to have a forgetful 2 month reign where he had 1 successful PPV title defense against Scott Hall. Their feud took a major backseat to the nWo-split storyline that was beginning, and Sting ultimately lost the title after Kevin Nash interfered in his match with Savage. You’d think Sting would want revenge on Nash for this, yet literally a month later he was teaming with Big Kev after Hall and Giant joined nWo Hollywood. This whole thing made no sense, and Sting just looked like a buffoon in the end. Hard to believe that within 5 months of Starcade ‘97 that fans literally couldn’t give 2 craps about Sting any longer.
Though I will say that I find 1998 WCW vastly more entertaining than what the WWE has given us in the last 15 years.
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Post by PJ on Aug 25, 2019 17:19:33 GMT -5
I don’t think the fans ever didn’t care about Sting then I just think by then WCW had no direction by then. And he was not utilized correctly and lost in the shuffle because he wasn’t Hogan, Hall, Nash or Goldberg.
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Post by JokerFC on Aug 27, 2019 13:25:42 GMT -5
I don’t think the fans ever didn’t care about Sting then I just think by then WCW had no direction by then. And he was not utilized correctly and lost in the shuffle because he wasn’t Hogan, Hall, Nash or Goldberg. don't forget Randy savage PJ...just as guilty as Hogan & Nash in the derailment of Stings push. If the Wolfpac had been let what Hall wanted it to be? We could have had something very tidy....but politics and EGO wrecked that too!!!
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Post by MKSavage on Aug 27, 2019 17:18:22 GMT -5
I don’t think the fans ever didn’t care about Sting then I just think by then WCW had no direction by then. And he was not utilized correctly and lost in the shuffle because he wasn’t Hogan, Hall, Nash or Goldberg. don't forget Randy savage PJ...just as guilty as Hogan & Nash in the derailment of Stings push. If the Wolfpac had been let what Hall wanted it to be? We could have had something very tidy....but politics and EGO wrecked that too!!! What did Hall want it to be?
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Post by The Brain on Aug 27, 2019 17:31:28 GMT -5
I never liked Crow Sting but man I really couldn't stand his run in the Wolfpac.He spent all those months against the NWO only for him to join em in the end. Now I know he joined the red and black but still it was a version of NWO nonetheless.
They should've just kept him as the leader of WCW.
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Post by JokerFC on Aug 28, 2019 11:53:06 GMT -5
don't forget Randy savage PJ...just as guilty as Hogan & Nash in the derailment of Stings push. If the Wolfpac had been let what Hall wanted it to be? We could have had something very tidy....but politics and EGO wrecked that too!!! What did Hall want it to be? Hall & Nash realised that certain members of the nWo always got cheered no matter what they did(outside of Sting interactions) and Suggested that the Wolfpac turn face and be their own faction more in the style of their kliq buddies DX. Hall, Nash & Syxx. Waltman got injured etc but the idea remained...….Konnan was subbed in for Syxx and they were supposed to get Bagwell & Hennig too. Steiner was mooted but refused on the grounds He had just turned heel Hogan didn't like the idea apparently and moaned that "Nash was stealing all the cool guys" for their project and the nWo was gonna get left behind and that was a bad idea because it was the nWo and nothing else that got WCW so far. Hall,Bagwell & Hennig were told to stay black/White by Easy E. That left just Nash & Konnan….Savage wanted in and got his wish. Nash & Hall werent happy because it was meant to be the cooler/young guys for the Wolfpac. The addition of Savage and non nWo guy Luger was "meh" to them. Some higher up in WCW got nervous about the dissolution of the nWo and the final nail in the Wolfpac was it becoming nWo Red.....then Sting got added....to a faction he swore to destroy.
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Post by MKSavage on Aug 28, 2019 14:27:55 GMT -5
What did Hall want it to be? Hall & Nash realised that certain members of the nWo always got cheered no matter what they did(outside of Sting interactions) and Suggested that the Wolfpac turn face and be their own faction more in the style of their kliq buddies DX. Hall, Nash & Syxx. Waltman got injured etc but the idea remained...….Konnan was subbed in for Syxx and they were supposed to get Bagwell & Hennig too. Steiner was mooted but refused on the grounds He had just turned heel Hogan didn't like the idea apparently and moaned that "Nash was stealing all the cool guys" for their project and the nWo was gonna get left behind and that was a bad idea because it was the nWo and nothing else that got WCW so far. Hall,Bagwell & Hennig were told to stay black/White by Easy E. That left just Nash & Konnan….Savage wanted in and got his wish. Nash & Hall werent happy because it was meant to be the cooler/young guys for the Wolfpac. The addition of Savage and non nWo guy Luger was "meh" to them. Some higher up in WCW got nervous about the dissolution of the nWo and the final nail in the Wolfpac was it becoming nWo Red.....then Sting got added....to a faction he swore to destroy. Yeah, that probably would have been better. I wondered if the NWO Wolfpack should have been the WWF New Generation guys and NWO Black&White should have been the Hulk-a-mania guys. Having Nash, Hall, Bret, Luger, Syxx, Jarrett, and Steiner would have made sense for the Wolfpack, with Hogan, Savage, Hennig, Rude, Vincent, and some of the WCW guys that joined being in the NWO Black&White. This might have given the NWO story more life and maybe the ratings wouldn't have started tanking so bad in 99/00. They could have started to phase out some of the older guys (NWO Black&White) and rebuild the NWO Wolfpack as the new bad ass heel faction (but kind of in the way that DX was, sort-of heel and babyface at the same time). Adding Sting to either of them made no sense. They should have had WCW regroup after the NWO split and kind-of get a make-shift faction of their own with Sting, Goldberg, DDP, Piper, Flair, the Horsemen, Booker T, and some of the other younger WCW stars to go after the new NWO. Ultimately, the goal of the NWO storyline should have been WCW winning in the end and disbanding the NWO with the hopes that by that time the younger stars of WCW would have risen to the level of the older stars (NWO and WCW) to take their spots.
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Post by cordless2016 on Aug 28, 2019 17:22:48 GMT -5
Lol I remember hearing that Hogan refuses to let Hall join the Wolfpac because he thought that Nash had all the cool guys.
The group should have literally been Nash, Hall, and Konnan (Syxx too if he never got hurt/fired). Instead that just got watered down too.
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Post by cordless2016 on Sept 11, 2019 21:30:07 GMT -5
So continuing my binge of ‘98 WCW, I’m entertained as hell, but as stated previously, nothing makes sense and it’s frustrating how much potential this company had. Some notes from the summer and fall of ‘98 that annoy me...
- Sting is a lackey in the Wolfpack
- Sting joining the Wolfpack
- Goldberg beats Hogan for the title, yet doesn’t main event a PPV for months (it wasn’t until Hogan left for about 3 months at the end of the year that Goldberg was featured as the top guy)
- Hogan selling like crazy for Jay Leno, yet couldn’t do the same for Sting earlier in the year after a 16 month build
- Jericho being over with the fans yet nothing was done to elevate him (this includes the Goldberg feud that never had a payoff)
- Same for Benoit, Booker, and Eddie
- Scott Hall playing a drunk on TV (rather than sending him to rehab for real)
- The Wolfpack including Sting, Luger, and Hennig (it should have been Nash, Hall, and Konnan)
- Bret Hart’s 9,000 face/heel turns
- Bret Hart using weapons in every one of his matches (this really goes for every match that didn’t include the CWs)
- The whole Hogan/Warrior feud (I was fine with them bringing Warrior in, but the whole feud was crap from the get go)
- Never getting a payoff to the nWo vs Wolfpack
These are just the bigger annoyances that stick out to me (there are plenty more), but the presentation of the show was great and blows anything the WWE does today out of the water. The show is entertaining despite the annoyances as well. Some other positives from this time frame...
- Goldberg and DDP we’re booked great. Despite Goldberg being a 2nd fiddle champ, he was booked crazy strong. DDP also got a major push during this time and I’d argue should have been booked even stronger with how over he was. Both were highlights of this time.
- Scott Steiner and Buff Bagwell were a great team and their promos were gold.
- Bret Hart’s “who would ever doubt El Dandy?” promo
- Booker, Benoit, Jericho, and Eddie killing it in the midcard
- The CWs as always
- Wrath was cool before getting fed to Nash
- “The German” Alex Wright is in my “boy stable” (refer to OSW dictionary if not sure what this means)
- Kevin Nash...yes people like to rag on Nash in WCW but his promos were great and he had a few memorable matches during this time when motivated. I wouldn’t have booked him to beat Goldberg but he was no doubt over at this time.
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Post by JokerFC on Sept 12, 2019 12:37:37 GMT -5
Great post man!!!
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Post by cordless2016 on Sept 12, 2019 18:29:50 GMT -5
Forgot to mention one guy in my summer/fall WCW ‘98 review...The Giant. That’s because he was literally forgettable during this time. The only moment that sticks out to me is Goldberg jackhammering him. Crazy how he was one of the shows focal points in ‘95/96 yet by ‘98 he was nothing more than a background character. His constant face/heel turns didn’t help, and you could tell he just seemed checked out by this timeframe.
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Post by JokerFC on Sept 14, 2019 5:27:44 GMT -5
Forgot to mention one guy in my summer/fall WCW ‘98 review...The Giant. That’s because he was literally forgettable during this time. The only moment that sticks out to me is Goldberg jackhammering him. Crazy how he was one of the shows focal points in ‘95/96 yet by ‘98 he was nothing more than a background character. His constant face/heel turns didn’t help, and you could tell he just seemed checked out by this timeframe. Yup had his eye on WWF already and had rebuked contract negotiations with Easy E in the fall...so he was fed to the wolves....It was weird the way they had his character smoking all the time....
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