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Post by SMTTT! on Mar 15, 2012 18:33:18 GMT -5
Hopefully this is the right board.
So I have been watching the past WCW debuts, and here is my biggest beef with the Invasion. I understand Vince wanted to teach the WCW a lesson by basically making them get beat up by everybody on the roster, but my problem is this: most of the die hard wrestling fans watched BOTH shows. A lot of my favorite wrestlers (nWo, Sting, Goldberg, etc.) were from WCW. Instead of trying to come in and basically destroy the WCW talent, why not do something with them and make more sells?
Another thing I think could've worked was do like they did with ECW and have their own separate show. Vince owned the contracts of WCW, but they still could've let Bischoff run it the way he wanted to (as long as he got it approved by McMahon).
I feel like in the end, the Invasion could've happened a lot better. Maybe Vince could've bought it, still run the show on TBS (or whatever network he could've done) and SLOWLY do an Invasion angle that builds up to the two brands colliding.
Idk I just know this angle destroyed what was left of WCW. What are your thoughts?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2012 19:01:03 GMT -5
LOL....Im absolutely burnt out talking about this topic man.this is honestly the 8th time in a year its came up.
the reasons are so numerous for the miserable failure of this angle its unreal.most well within Vinces control but some legit beyond it.
IMO the things he did wrong
1)too many guys brought over.he should have canned all the jobbers and used that dough to offset the buyout of Flair,Steiners and Goldberg who were all willing to talk turkey.
2)turning Austin heel to front WCW-disasterous-in the absense of others and needing a betrayal....Jericho was the way to go.it would have made him heel 1# overnight and some convincing showings later and Vince would have created another top guy almost instantly.
3)sidelining Heyman in favor of his cretin of a daughter was a crippling blow.she should have been nowhere near this angle.ditto for Shane and Bishcoff.although Bisch could have debuted with nWo and flair could have led WCW.
4)DDP and Booker T were booked as jobbers.again what purpose this served is far beyond my comprehension.Vince robbed himslef of several top line programs.
what he did right:
not pursuing Hall,Nash and Hogan.they were better held in reserve......as the nWo it made better sense for them to come in solo.
Jesus I could go on all day.
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Tyler Black
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the former #1 Tyler Black fan/Tyler F'n Black
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Post by Tyler Black on Mar 15, 2012 19:20:30 GMT -5
Vince tried to keep running WCW but there were two problems:
1)on an episode of smackdown( I think) for the last match he changed the ringskirt to WCW and had Booker T vs Buff Bagwell. The fans completely shited on the match and booed and chanted boring for the entire match
2) No network would touch WCW because it had a bad reputation for losing money
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Post by mikey1974 on Mar 15, 2012 19:27:31 GMT -5
without a doubt,the single biggest letdown in wrestling history....it SHOULD have been the angle to end all angles, "the mothership" (let's see who gets this reference!), made the nWo storyline look like nothing in comparison.... instead,Vince turned all the WCW guys into jobbers,refused to spend money to bring the big names in with them, did the disasterous turn of Austin joining WCW (and becoming a comedy act in the process),and essentially buried the WCW brand for good to feed his own ego.... what crap!!  |
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Post by SMTTT! on Mar 15, 2012 19:39:32 GMT -5
My problem was is you had CHAMPIONS of WCW being beat up by mid-carders or jobbers from WWF, so it almost destroyed any credibility of them even being competition anyway.
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jakksking1
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Joined on: Feb 2, 2011 14:45:41 GMT -5
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Post by jakksking1 on Mar 15, 2012 21:39:20 GMT -5
Obviously there were hundreds of problems with this angle. The 2 biggest I believe were
1) No stars came over. DDP was the biggest name in the Invasion. No Sting. No Hogan. No Flair. No Goldberg. Its not WCW without those guys, no matter how many no names, jobbers and lower midcarders they brought in.
2) WWF joins the WCW invaders. I mean, it was cool seeing ECW reform. But the main event of the Invasion PPV, the 5 on 5 WCW v. WWF, featured 3 WWF wrestlers on the WCW team (Dudleys, Rhyno). The Survivors Series ending to the Invasion featured Shane McMahon, Austin and Angle on the WCW team. I mean, the end of the WCW Invasion featured The Rock pinning Austin. That makes my mind hurt.
They should've milked the angle for a longer period of time, waited until they got at least several big name stars after their contracts ended.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2012 22:14:06 GMT -5
Hopefully this is the right board. So I have been watching the past WCW debuts, and here is my biggest beef with the Invasion. I understand Vince wanted to teach the WCW a lesson by basically making them get beat up by everybody on the roster, but my problem is this: most of the die hard wrestling fans watched BOTH shows. A lot of my favorite wrestlers (nWo, Sting, Goldberg, etc.) were from WCW. Instead of trying to come in and basically destroy the WCW talent, why not do something with them and make more sells? Another thing I think could've worked was do like they did with ECW and have their own separate show. Vince owned the contracts of WCW, but they still could've let Bischoff run it the way he wanted to (as long as he got it approved by McMahon). I feel like in the end, the Invasion could've happened a lot better. Maybe Vince could've bought it, still run the show on TBS (or whatever network he could've done) and SLOWLY do an Invasion angle that builds up to the two brands colliding. Idk I just know this angle destroyed what was left of WCW. What are your thoughts? That would not have been worth the money to let WCW have their own show considering this was right after the XFL fiasco...plus they were going to give wcw their own time under the wwe umbrella but that all went out the window with the bagwell/booker t match. Now another thing to consider is injuries of guys like HHH and Benoit Guys like the NWO, Steiner, goldberg, flair, I think Vince saw as longer term investments, which in some cases paid out and in others didnt (Steiner) As I also mention WCW 2000 was not WCW 96-98, I can see why Vince buried them. Again I do understand that vince should have made a bigger effort but maybe it would have been to much too soon... Did the invasion angle leave a lot to be desired? Yea sure. Did that matter to the wwe or did it affect them long term? Not at all..Wrestlemania X8 went on to have its highest buyrate in years |
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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 15, 2012 22:26:34 GMT -5
The Invasion angle has been talked about to death. It was arguably the biggest botched-angle in wrestling history. If Vince didn't want to bring the top stars in right away(he could have if he wanted to), he should have held off on the Invasion Angle and just debuted the WCW guys he had w/out and Invasion. My biggest problems w/ the Invasion angle are...
1) Booker T and DDP were treated as jobbers. Both of these guys were top stars in WCW and loved by the fans. DDP, the origional "People's Champ," was turned into a stalker and went after Taker's fugly wife when we all knew he was married to Kimberly Page. Booker T went from a serious and very popular champion in WCW to a stereotypical "black man" in the WWF. This was enough to kill them off, but Vince decided to job them out to every WWF star they feuded w/. DDP never got the upperhand once against Taker, and was burried w/in a month of debuting. Hell, he was even pinned by Taker's wife. Booker was treated as a joke and lost all of his feuds to Angle, Rock, Jericho, and Taker during the Invasion. How were we suppose to take them seriously when they were treated as jokes by Vince.
2) Austin and Angle in WCW. We all knew Austin's hatred for the real WCW, and after his failed heel run after WM17, you'd think Vince would have kept him face during the Invasion since thats what the fans wanted. Instead, Austin was kept heel and put on WCW, and treated everybody else in the Alliance as jokes. He made no sense being on the Alliance team. Having guys like Jericho and Big Show, who had been in WCW at one point, turn on the WWF would have made way more sense. Instead, we had to sit through Austin's leadership and weekly singing from the Alliance about how great Austin was. Then to make things worse, Angle joined the Alliance weeks before Survivor Series, even though he was the #1 face for the WWF for most of the Invasion Angle.
3) WWF stars defecting to the Alliance. Now, obviously the Alliance needed some defections to help "even the odds." Sending guys like Test and Christian over was fine, but when they are treated as "better" than main eventers like Booker T and DDP, there is a problem. Seriously, by SummerSlam, the Alliance was dominated by WWF mid-carders while the true WCW and ECW guys were treated as crap. When Test is getting clean wins while Booker T and DDP are being jobbed out, there is a problem.
4) ECW joining WCW. No explanation needed.
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Post by hbkjason on Mar 16, 2012 3:05:50 GMT -5
I will always defend the Invasion angle, sure it is easy to look back and say they could have done this they could have done that. But watching it at the time as it happened I actually really enjoyed it.
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Post by LeighD on Mar 16, 2012 7:02:16 GMT -5
My biggest beefs with the Invasion Angle:
- As many have said DDP & Booker T were two of WCW's top guys and were made into jobbers. Had WWE pushed them as threats, these two could've "captianed" Team WCW. Instead of Austin & Angle. The entire WCW roster that was brought over just wasn't treated as threatening!
- Time frame. The WHOLE angle last roughly 5-7 months depending on when you think of the start point. This thing could have lasted a solid year or two! If this had happened, Hall, Hogan, & Nash were brought back in Feb of 2002 and thus could've been factored in as well as Flair whom RETURNED the day after the angle ended. Scott Steiner returned in November 2002 and Goldberg in April of 2003. Thus some MAJOR star power that was never used.
- ECW. I'm not sure where I would've liked them. I felt RVD vs. Hardy was the highlight of the summer of 2001.
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jakksking1
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Post by jakksking1 on Mar 16, 2012 8:58:18 GMT -5
- ECW. I'm not sure where I would've liked them. I felt RVD vs. Hardy was the highlight of the summer of 2001. Looking back, ECW really didn't fit. Just like Team WCW, they didn't have a lot of their big name talent. And their biggest star, RVD, was getting huge pops, so it really didn't work having him as a heel in the evil invading ECW. |
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vivalaraza1331
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Post by vivalaraza1331 on Mar 16, 2012 10:49:20 GMT -5
The Invasion was dead, from a storyline standpoint, the minute a McMahon bought WCW. It became a pawn in another McMahon vs. McMahon feud and it never recovered. Star power was a problem but I contend that guys like Lance Storm, Mike Awesome, Billy Kidman, Shane Helms, and Kanyon COULD have been stars if they were allowed to beat WWE Superstars. They weren't, had to be rescued by WWE guys like Stone Cold and ex-ECW guys and as a result, were not taken seriously.
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Post by pxkgotosleep on Mar 16, 2012 10:53:56 GMT -5
WWF Fans didn't give a damn about WCW. Just check out when Booker/Bagwell main evented Raw.
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500DaysofNight
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Post by 500DaysofNight on Mar 16, 2012 18:20:06 GMT -5
WWF Fans didn't give a damn about WCW. Just check out when Booker/Bagwell main evented Raw. They had no reason to care about that match to begin with. It was just like they were saying "Well, here's WCW... enjoy." Those two are not at all what comes to the mind when you hear the name "WCW". They NEEDED bigger stars and they needed to dish out some money and bring in the people that everyone wanted to see. I think this angle was the first time that Vince didn't put business first and decided to gloat instead and it came back and bit him. |
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Burger Lad
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Post by Burger Lad on Mar 17, 2012 14:22:23 GMT -5
I was so dissapointed with the whole thing. Like others have said teaming WCW with ECW made no sense, Austin leading WCW and Stephanie and Shanes involvement all led to a massive  |
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