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Post by marino13 on Feb 12, 2012 14:43:29 GMT -5
Sounds like a hell of a pop for a heel. I'd probably have turned him face too. But no you're right must have been Hunter's ego making the fans cheer for Orton. And no offense but I'd much rather take the word over someone with actual knowledge on the matter over someone who does not... Edge got a huge pop when he first won the WWE Title. Would you have turned him face right away as well? Orton was the first heel other than HHH in years at that point to win the world title on Raw. Add that to the fact that Canadian fans usually always cheer the heels and you have your explanation. Lets also look at Orton's promo the week before SummerSlam. He called all the 24 year old fans fat and lazy...sounds like a great way to get your future face of the show over in 1 week. Sorry but you defense of HHH isn't too convincing. Edge beat Cena so of coarse he got an ovation. Benoit was beloved by the male demographic while Cena was not. So what's your point? And you think your biased bashing without any facts to back it up is convincing? I get that you don't like Hunter but to act like every negative thing that ever happens is his fault is pathetic. Things happen, plain and simple. Whether we agree with it or not, it doesn't always mean Triple H is to blame. I highly doubt he tries to sabotage every young guy that comes up. Especially when I found videos from younger guys like Cryme Tyme & Eugene that say nothing but positives things. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Feb 12, 2012 14:59:44 GMT -5
Edge got a huge pop when he first won the WWE Title. Would you have turned him face right away as well? Orton was the first heel other than HHH in years at that point to win the world title on Raw. Add that to the fact that Canadian fans usually always cheer the heels and you have your explanation. Lets also look at Orton's promo the week before SummerSlam. He called all the 24 year old fans fat and lazy...sounds like a great way to get your future face of the show over in 1 week. Sorry but you defense of HHH isn't too convincing. Edge beat Cena so of coarse he got an ovation. Benoit was beloved by the male demographic while Cena was not. So what's your point? And you think your biased bashing without any facts to back it up is convincing? I get that you don't like Hunter but to act like every negative thing that ever happens is his fault is pathetic. Things happen, plain and simple. Whether we agree with it or not, it doesn't always mean Triple H is to blame. I highly doubt he tries to sabotage every young guy that comes up. Especially when I found videos from younger guys like Cryme Tyme & Eugene that say nothing but positives things. Because Cryme Tyme and Eugene are the most convincing guys around... I'm a HHH fan. I loved the guy from 1997-2001. But to try and act like he had no backstage power or ego from 2002-2005 and had nothing to do w/ going over literally everybody around that time is a joke. RVD, Kane, Steiner, Booker, Nash, Goldberg, Eugene, and Orton were all burried beyond belief by Hunter. To say that there was no politicing going on while these guys were being humiliated by Hunter and treated like chumps is turning a blind eye. Orton arguably got it the worst out of those guys. There was nothing to suggest he should turn face. He was a heel, and fans payed to see him lose. The only other time he was a face was in 2002 and we remember how well that got over. The guy got over from being a heel. He wasn't The Rock who was a heel who got cheers from the fans. He was a heel who people loved to hate and wanted to see him get his butt kicked. Yet right after becoming world champ he was turned face for no reason what so ever and jobbed to all 3 Evolution members in just 5 months. Do you really believe that getting beat up by his buddies and then jobbing to HHH in his first title defense 3 weeks later was a good way to get him over as a face? Neither did I. You claim the fact that Orton wasn't over was because Batista was getting over, yet Batista was jobbing to friggin Maven in December. Long after Orton had already been booked as a lame face. Batista didn't get pushed until right before the Royal Rumble because Vince realized that Orton's whole run was booked to make him fail. Sorry, but whether you like it or not, 99% of wrestling fans see that HHH obviously had alot of backstage power from 2002-2005 ans weilded it to favor him. And this is coming from a HHH fan. |
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Post by marino13 on Feb 12, 2012 15:22:30 GMT -5
I read years ago from a former writer that the whole reason Hunter held onto the title so long was to establish the World title for fans who weren't wCw fans. And the were trying to make Evolution the new Horsemen and Triple H's reign much like those Flair had in the 80's.
And I have no proof that Hunter made the call to hold any of those men down to make himself look better. Sure dirsheets claim to know, but we all know they are only guessing.
It was already said that maybe Triple H went over on Booker because Goldberg was coming in. So does that mean it was Triple H's call to go over Booker? Or they were planning big things for Bill? Who knows? I don't.
Steiner was a shell of his former self, and wasn't ready for a main event spot. Sorry.
Goldberg defeated Triple H in their only 1 on 1 match. And Hunter only got it back because of Kane & Evolution. Doesn't sound like burying to me. To me burying someone doesn't mean needing 3 or 4 guys to help you win, Or even a sledgehammer. Maybe that's just me.
Yes, a case could be made that RVD & Kane could have been great champions but who are we to assume Vince even wanted them to be? And yes, Orton's turn was poorly handled, but who's to say it was cause of Hunter's ego?
My whole point is none of us really know what goes on, and I find it ignorant to assume that every decision we don't agree with is lazily passed off on Hunter without any proof.
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Post by cordless2016 on Feb 12, 2012 15:36:48 GMT -5
I read years ago from a former writer that the whole reason Hunter held onto the title so long was to establish the World title for fans who weren't wCw fans. And the were trying to make Evolution the new Horsemen and Triple H's reign much like those Flair had in the 80's. And I have no proof that Hunter made the call to hold any of those men down to make himself look better. Sure dirsheets claim to know, but we all know they are only guessing. It was already said that maybe Triple H went over on Booker because Goldberg was coming in. So does that mean it was Triple H's call to go over Booker? Or they were planning big things for Bill? Who knows? I don't. Steiner was a shell of his former self, and wasn't ready for a main event spot. Sorry. Goldberg defeated Triple H in their only 1 on 1 match. And Hunter only got it back because of Kane & Evolution. Doesn't sound like burying to me. To me burying someone doesn't mean needing 3 or 4 guys to help you win, Or even a sledgehammer. Maybe that's just me. Yes, a case could be made that RVD & Kane could have been great champions but who are we to assume Vince even wanted them to be? And yes, Orton's turn was poorly handled, but who's to say it was cause of Hunter's ego? My whole point is none of us really know what goes on, and I find it ignorant to assume that every decision we don't agree with is lazily passed off on Hunter without any proof. 1) Hunter was legit hurt going into SummerSlam. There was no reason to go over in the Elimination Chamber, yet he still went over Goldberg when HHH could barely walk. Hunter getting the first win in his feud w/ Goldberg, w/ a legit serious injury, dosen't give you any suspicion at all? W/ Booker, the whole feud was about racism and made Booker look like a chump .Goldberg signing should have had no outcome on the WM match, yet HHH went over and basically made everything he said true. 2) Who said that every bad decision made is passed off on HHH? We're saying that he had alot of backstage pull that obviously factored into decisions made. Vince makes the final say on everything, but don't you think daddy's little girl and his son-in-law have quite a bit of pull backstage. Also, nobody is saying that Hunter got over because he's married to Steph. The guy was a main event long before they hooked up. But ever since they got married in 2002, Hunter became this dominant monster, especially from 2002-2005. You say we have no proof but we have quotes and interviews from guys like Steiner, Goldberg, Booker T, and RVD who have all quoted that Hunter has backstage say. I'd take their quotes over the quotes of nobodies like Cryme Tyme and Eugene. And again, this is coming from a guy who is a HHH fan. I loved his character, especially from 1997-2001. |
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Post by marino13 on Feb 12, 2012 15:45:44 GMT -5
I read years ago from a former writer that the whole reason Hunter held onto the title so long was to establish the World title for fans who weren't wCw fans. And the were trying to make Evolution the new Horsemen and Triple H's reign much like those Flair had in the 80's. And I have no proof that Hunter made the call to hold any of those men down to make himself look better. Sure dirsheets claim to know, but we all know they are only guessing. It was already said that maybe Triple H went over on Booker because Goldberg was coming in. So does that mean it was Triple H's call to go over Booker? Or they were planning big things for Bill? Who knows? I don't. Steiner was a shell of his former self, and wasn't ready for a main event spot. Sorry. Goldberg defeated Triple H in their only 1 on 1 match. And Hunter only got it back because of Kane & Evolution. Doesn't sound like burying to me. To me burying someone doesn't mean needing 3 or 4 guys to help you win, Or even a sledgehammer. Maybe that's just me. Yes, a case could be made that RVD & Kane could have been great champions but who are we to assume Vince even wanted them to be? And yes, Orton's turn was poorly handled, but who's to say it was cause of Hunter's ego? My whole point is none of us really know what goes on, and I find it ignorant to assume that every decision we don't agree with is lazily passed off on Hunter without any proof. 1) Hunter was legit hurt going into SummerSlam. There was no reason to go over in the Elimination Chamber, yet he still went over Goldberg when HHH could barely walk. Hunter getting the first win in his feud w/ Goldberg, w/ a legit serious injury, dosen't give you any suspicion at all? W/ Booker, the whole feud was about racism and made Booker look like a chump .Goldberg signing should have had no outcome on the WM match, yet HHH went over and basically made everything he said true. 2) Who said that every bad decision made is passed off on HHH? We're saying that he had alot of backstage pull that obviously factored into decisions made. Vince makes the final say on everything, but don't you think daddy's little girl and his son-in-law have quite a bit of pull backstage. Also, nobody is saying that Hunter got over because he's married to Steph. The guy was a main event long before they hooked up. But ever since they got married in 2002, Hunter became this dominant monster, especially from 2002-2005. You say we have no proof but we have quotes and interviews from guys like Steiner, Goldberg, Booker T, and RVD who have all quoted that Hunter has backstage say. I'd take their quotes over the quotes of nobodies like Cryme Tyme and Eugene. And again, this is coming from a guy who is a HHH fan. I loved his character, especially from 1997-2001. Okay then can you find some of these quotes and post them? Cause I've been looking and found nothing from any of them. And I find it hard that anything Steiner says to be legit (or coherent). |
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Post by cordless2016 on Feb 12, 2012 22:30:19 GMT -5
1) Hunter was legit hurt going into SummerSlam. There was no reason to go over in the Elimination Chamber, yet he still went over Goldberg when HHH could barely walk. Hunter getting the first win in his feud w/ Goldberg, w/ a legit serious injury, dosen't give you any suspicion at all? W/ Booker, the whole feud was about racism and made Booker look like a chump .Goldberg signing should have had no outcome on the WM match, yet HHH went over and basically made everything he said true. 2) Who said that every bad decision made is passed off on HHH? We're saying that he had alot of backstage pull that obviously factored into decisions made. Vince makes the final say on everything, but don't you think daddy's little girl and his son-in-law have quite a bit of pull backstage. Also, nobody is saying that Hunter got over because he's married to Steph. The guy was a main event long before they hooked up. But ever since they got married in 2002, Hunter became this dominant monster, especially from 2002-2005. You say we have no proof but we have quotes and interviews from guys like Steiner, Goldberg, Booker T, and RVD who have all quoted that Hunter has backstage say. I'd take their quotes over the quotes of nobodies like Cryme Tyme and Eugene. And again, this is coming from a guy who is a HHH fan. I loved his character, especially from 1997-2001. Okay then can you find some of these quotes and post them? Cause I've been looking and found nothing from any of them. And I find it hard that anything Steiner says to be legit (or coherent). RVD: weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/wrestling/blog/2008/01/qa_with_rob_van_dam.htmlYou just mentioned Triple H. To me, the title program that you had with him in 2002 was sort of a turning point in your WWE career. He said in his promos that you weren’t in his league and the way the program was designed seemed to indicate that as well. What was working with Triple H like for you? Was it contentious at all in the back when you were going over your matches? "It was ingenuine. Just like when he pretends that he cares when he says, “Hey, how’s it going today? OK, good, good.” And he just has that smugness about him where you know when he’s walking away from you that he’s rolling his eyes or something. There’s something about that kind of guy that vibrates at such a different speed than me, that I don’t enjoy being around someone like that. I’m genuine. I don’t say anything about anybody that I won’t say to their face, and somebody that’s the opposite and puts up a big front – basically, that’s how they do it there. That is how you get to the top there. Traditionally, that seems to be the way to go – to stab people in the back, to hold them down after you can’t go up any higher yourself. I was never going to go that way, so I was always happy just making it as far as I could and just looking at it professionally. Going over a match – that’s professionalism, too. When you’re out there in the ring with somebody, you bring what you bring to the table and so do they, and it’s all business beforehand. Now, once you’re out there in the ring, then anything can go, and that’s when it helps to know that you can handle yourself and defend yourself." From Goldberg's twitter account: "@goldberg that guy HHH is a complete f**kin moron, the only reason he's still wrestling is Stephanie." It's also been well documented that the two have had a real life feud w/ eachother. Heres a link to another forum talking about it. forums.prowrestlingfans.com/world-wrestling-entertainment/16084-triple-h-goldberg-real-life-feud.htmlScott Steiner: forums.usanetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=396382Steiner said, plain and simple, that he was held back by Triple H - and that he wasn't alone. "Yeah, well, look what happened to everybody else. Same thing Goldberg, same thing Kevin Nash. What can you do? The guy's a very insecure man. Realistically speaking, if he wasn't messing with the boss's daughter, he wouldn't have a job there right now." And Brock Lesnar for you too: forums.usanetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=396382Brock on his dealings with Triple H: Triple H needlessly buried you in an interview on the September 2, 2002 Raw, just moments after he had been presented with the newly-created World Title by Eric Bischoff. This came one week after you, as Undisputed Champion, were signed exclusively to SmackDown in the storyline. On that September 2 Raw broadcast, Triple H, who was a heel, said: "Brock Lesnar knows he doesn't belong in the same ring with me. Brock Lesnar knows that he can't with me in this ring. As a matter of fact, Brock Lesnar doesn't even belong speaking my name. And the fact is, the second I beat The Undertaker to become the number one contender, Brock Lesnar knew his days as champion were over, so he took his belt and ran with his tail between his legs. As it turns out, 'The Next Big Thing' has no guts." I don't know what you're talking about. That's how much attention I paid to Triple H (laughs)... I didn't even know that happened. It did. You were a rising star at the time, and Triple H was the established star. His obnoxious speech did nothing to facilitate your growth. Well, when you're (with) the boss' daughter, you can pretty much say what you want. You had a few matches with Triple H on the road, but you never had a feud on TV. I don't think he wanted to put me over -- so that never happened. While I don't agree w/ Steiner on HHH not having a job if it wasn't for Steph, if these 4 top guys don't convince you I don't know what will. |
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Post by marino13 on Feb 13, 2012 9:15:34 GMT -5
Fair enough.
Do you honestly believe that Steiner should have been WWE champion when he returned? Is it Triple H's fault he hasn't been TNA champion also?
RVD is the only one of them that doesn't come off as a bitter former employee. Lesnar & Goldberg were both lashing out at comments Triple H made. But if this is what you believe then fine, but I tend to believe someone like Prichard who worked first hand with the writing crew everyday.
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Post by cordless2016 on Feb 13, 2012 14:15:37 GMT -5
Nah, I don't think Steiner deserved to win the world title. But I also think that his run was booked completly wrong and that he was made to look like a joke to Hunter and his cronies.
W/ Goldberg, him and HHH had a real life feud w/ eachother before Bill even came to the WWE. Don't you think this would have affected his feud w/ HHH at all considering HHH has quite a bit of say backstage? W/ Lesnar, HHH did try to burry him in that promo for no reason.
It's cool you look at HHH in a better light than most do. But alot of top names have come out about him in a negative light and it is well known that he has had a considerable amount of backstage influence since tying the knot w/ Steph in 2002. From 2002-2005, he single handedly made Raw almost unbearable to watch w/ his dominance over the show, and the drop in ratings for the show compared to the few years before it prove it(not all of HHH's fault, but he was at the top of the show).
Like I've said I like HHH, especially from 1997-2001. If looking at his character from a kayfabe perspective, he was badass. But his dominance over the show and others since the Attitude Era ended has been a joke and made Raw unwatchable at times. Nobody is saying that marrying Steph got him to the top. It didn't, because he was main eventing since 1999. But since marrying her in 2002, his character has dominated the WWE well past his prime and it is well known that his backstage influence had a big impact on it.
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Post by pxkgotosleep on Feb 13, 2012 14:38:29 GMT -5
I did wonder why we never had a HBK/Rock match...
Also, all of the above arrangement's are invalid as B*niot never happened.
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