did becoming an "American Hero" ruin Lex Luger?

[mikey1974]

set the way-back machine to Royal Rumble 1993...Lex Luger makes his official WWF debut there as 'The Narcissist' character...he rides it to WM IX and beats Mr. Perfect,then starts up a feud with Bret Hart in early summer...

then,suddenly,on July 4th(and after Hogan leaves), he's bodyslamming Yokozuna,getting rid of his "personal adviser" Bobby Heenan,and taking Hogan's place as the Red,White,and Blue savior of the WWF! only, the campaign never really takes of like Vince hoped,Luger fails to wrest the title form Yokozuna,a year later he's losing to Tatanka,and a year after that he's relegated to opening Tag Team matches with Davey Boy Smith and planning his exit...

so,my question is this - do you think Luger would've had a more fruitful,productive,and memorable run in his WWF stint had he stayed The Narcissist and a heel,or was he doomed for failure no matter what?

[kerowack]

I think he would have been over either way, but the USA run ended when they booked him the way they did at that Summerslam. But considering how the business changed, the American gimmick would have fizzled where the Narcissist would have had some legs....

[jakks1996collector]

If he had won the championship at SummerSlam 93 I think he would have been the face of the WWF until HBK in 1996. But we all saw how the ending of the match was booked at SummerSlam 93. What did WWF do correctly from 1993-1996 anyway?

[Deleted]

I'm sorry but the mid 90s belonged to Bret Hart and for whatever reason Vince McMahon just REFUSED to accept that fact.

He tried to build Lex Luger and Diesel to be the #1 face of the company and both lasted for a short time (Diesel longer than Lex) but both ended up falling flat on their face until the belt went back to Bret.

I'm not saying that Luger and Diesel were total failures because they certainly were not and both were over. It's just that the WWF crowd already had a guy they were solidly behind (Bret) and there was no need to try and establish bigger names than him at the time....until HBK in '96 anyway.

[Daniel F'n Bryan]

Dec 18, 2011 14:00:44 GMT -5 @bashcrashwiley said:

I'm sorry but the mid 90s belonged to Bret Hart and for whatever reason Vince McMahon just REFUSED to accept that fact.

He tried to build Lex Luger and Diesel to be the #1 face of the company and both lasted for a short time (Diesel longer than Lex) but both ended up falling flat on their face until the belt went back to Bret.

I'm not saying that Luger and Diesel were total failures because they certainly were not and both were over. It's just that the WWF crowd already had a guy they were solidly behind (Bret) and there was no need to try and establish bigger names than him at the time....until HBK in '96 anyway.

Had Diesel stayed Heel and won the belt from Bret instead of Backlund I feel his run would have been alot better. Im not quite sure what they could have done to make Lex better then he ended up.

[Bartman]

Dec 18, 2011 14:40:49 GMT -5 Daniel F'n Bryan said:

Dec 18, 2011 14:00:44 GMT -5 @bashcrashwiley said:

I'm sorry but the mid 90s belonged to Bret Hart and for whatever reason Vince McMahon just REFUSED to accept that fact.

He tried to build Lex Luger and Diesel to be the #1 face of the company and both lasted for a short time (Diesel longer than Lex) but both ended up falling flat on their face until the belt went back to Bret.

I'm not saying that Luger and Diesel were total failures because they certainly were not and both were over. It's just that the WWF crowd already had a guy they were solidly behind (Bret) and there was no need to try and establish bigger names than him at the time....until HBK in '96 anyway.

Had Diesel stayed Heel and won the belt from Bret instead of Backlund I feel his run would have been alot better. Im not quite sure what they could have done to make Lex better then he ended up.

The thing with Diesel was the face turn was inevitable because he became very over and started getting a face reaction.

As for Lex, the American Hero wasn't a mistake, like mentioned, not winning the title at Summerslam 1993 was probably the biggest downfall.

I was thinking about this the other day how Luger and Diesel were pushed to be the next 'Hogan'. Wasn't Sid originally brought in 91 in hopes of making him the new face of the company?

[Deleted]

Luger not winning the title at Summerslam 93 was the biggest hurt for him.the stip that he only had ONE shot was also ridiculous.

its hard to picture now what the train of thought was here........a massive build for 2 months that went absolutely nowhere.

[nibs92]

Dec 19, 2011 5:52:19 GMT -5 JokerFC said:

Luger not winning the title at Summerslam 93 was the biggest hurt for him.the stip that he only had ONE shot was also ridiculous.

its hard to picture now what the train of thought was here........a massive build for 2 months that went absolutely nowhere.

I sometimes think that the WWF was being a bit short sighted at the time.

WM9 ended with an "American hero" winning the belt, then pushing another patriot to win the belt at SummerSlam, with no actual follow through on either.

With Hogan being such a hot ticket for so long the WWF really struggled to find the next cash cow.

i wonder though, if they had long term plans for Luger? the one time only stip, giving him another obstacle to get over before ultimate victory? Either way though i was happy they went with Bret as the face of the WWF

[tnafan17: The Total Package]

Dec 19, 2011 9:38:40 GMT -5 nibs92 said:

Dec 19, 2011 5:52:19 GMT -5 JokerFC said:

Luger not winning the title at Summerslam 93 was the biggest hurt for him.the stip that he only had ONE shot was also ridiculous.

its hard to picture now what the train of thought was here........a massive build for 2 months that went absolutely nowhere.

I sometimes think that the WWF was being a bit short sighted at the time.

WM9 ended with an "American hero" winning the belt, then pushing another patriot to win the belt at SummerSlam, with no actual follow through on either.

With Hogan being such a hot ticket for so long the WWF really struggled to find the next cash cow.

i wonder though, if they had long term plans for Luger? the one time only stip, giving him another obstacle to get over before ultimate victory? Either way though i was happy they went with Bret as the face of the WWF

I was asking myself that same question when watching either the Monday Night Wars DVD or R&F of WCW the other day. Because Vince wanted to resign Luger, so it makes me wonder how things would have turned out for him if he had stayed just a little bit longer. I mean I think he may have gotten a fued with Hart. I don't know how he'd fit into the attitude era though...

[Daniel F'n Bryan]

Dec 19, 2011 9:38:40 GMT -5 nibs92 said:

Dec 19, 2011 5:52:19 GMT -5 JokerFC said:

Luger not winning the title at Summerslam 93 was the biggest hurt for him.the stip that he only had ONE shot was also ridiculous.

its hard to picture now what the train of thought was here........a massive build for 2 months that went absolutely nowhere.

I sometimes think that the WWF was being a bit short sighted at the time.

WM9 ended with an "American hero" winning the belt, then pushing another patriot to win the belt at SummerSlam, with no actual follow through on either.

With Hogan being such a hot ticket for so long the WWF really struggled to find the next cash cow.

i wonder though, if they had long term plans for Luger? the one time only stip, giving him another obstacle to get over before ultimate victory? Either way though i was happy they went with Bret as the face of the WWF

The next cash cow WAS Bret. He was the top face of the company but for some reason Vince didnt want to accept that and was always taking the belt away from him. He did it at Mania 9 and he did it when he lost the title to Backlund. Both were mistakes in my opinion. Losing to yoko would have been fine if it wasnt for the Hogan thing and the Backlund loss was completely unessesary. I dont feel Luger would have had a good title run as Bret was the most over guy in the company.

[cordless2016]

Dec 19, 2011 10:43:54 GMT -5 Daniel F'n Bryan said:

Dec 19, 2011 9:38:40 GMT -5 nibs92 said:

I sometimes think that the WWF was being a bit short sighted at the time.

WM9 ended with an "American hero" winning the belt, then pushing another patriot to win the belt at SummerSlam, with no actual follow through on either.

With Hogan being such a hot ticket for so long the WWF really struggled to find the next cash cow.

i wonder though, if they had long term plans for Luger? the one time only stip, giving him another obstacle to get over before ultimate victory? Either way though i was happy they went with Bret as the face of the WWF

The next cash cow WAS Bret. He was the top face of the company but for some reason Vince didnt want to accept that and was always taking the belt away from him. He did it at Mania 9 and he did it when he lost the title to Backlund. Both were mistakes in my opinion. Losing to yoko would have been fine if it wasnt for the Hogan thing and the Backlund loss was completely unessesary. I dont feel Luger would have had a good title run as Bret was the most over guy in the company.

Agreed 100%. From the early to mid-90s, Bret was THE MAN. The fans were solidly behind him and he was the biggest draw, yet Vince never believed it or wanted to accept it. Maybe it was because Bret wasn't a "jacked" freak like Luger or a giant like Diesel, but Bret was always the fall-back-guy for Vince. The Yoko win at WM9 would have been fine IMO had Hogan not taken the title. The WWF was lacking major heels at the time and Yoko getting the win was perfect for him. Hogan ruined it. As for the Backlund title win, that was even worse than Hogan taking the title at WM9. I have always said and still say that Owen Hart should have been the one to have taken the title from Bret at the Survivor Series that year. Bret losing to a guy that was champ before Hogan even hit the scene made Bret look like crap, even if it were a dirty win.

[Deleted]

yeah Vinces attitude was weird when it came to Bret....

his victory over Diesel was a great one and his first defence against Bulldog @ IYH:Seasons Beatings was epic in fairness........but he was only there to hold the belt until HBK won.late 95 thru Wm was ALL about Shawn and Diesel vs UT.

Bret was a total afterthought at this time.

getting back to Luger I often wondered if McMahon had planned to turn him heel in autumn 95 and utilise him that way.

[Deleted]

I always thought that the "Allied Powers" concept with Luger & Bulldog could have been really good if given a bigger push.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2011 0:57:20 GMT -5 @bashcrashwiley said:

I always thought that the "Allied Powers" concept with Luger & Bulldog could have been really good if given a bigger push.

Yeah, they could have been a dominate team

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2011 0:57:20 GMT -5 @bashcrashwiley said:

I always thought that the "Allied Powers" concept with Luger & Bulldog could have been really good if given a bigger push.

there was a push planned there butr Smith hated everything about it and eventually got it scrapped so he could go heel.something he had wanted for a while.

[Daniel F'n Bryan]

Dec 20, 2011 5:47:49 GMT -5 JokerFC said:

Dec 20, 2011 0:57:20 GMT -5 @bashcrashwiley said:

I always thought that the "Allied Powers" concept with Luger & Bulldog could have been really good if given a bigger push.

there was a push planned there butr Smith hated everything about it and eventually got it scrapped so he could go heel.something he had wanted for a while.

Thank god for that one, had they stayed together we wouldnt have gotten to see in my opinion one of the greatest tag teams ever in Davey Boy and Owen. I think they should have kept Luger heel full time. They needed a Big heel from 94 to 96 in my opinion.

[koreygunz]

I remember they seemed to plant the seeds of a Narccist/Bret fued at WM 9, with Luger knocking out Bret at the "WM Breakfast." But then after Mania nothing really came of it that I can remember.

You could argue about whether Luger should have been turned face or not, but regardles he was over. He should have gotten the title at SummerSlam 93, and probably could have then transitioned into a feud with Bret or even someone like Ludvig Borga going into Survivor Series. He was supposed to win the title at Mania 10 as well, but got drunk and told people at a bar he was winning the title.

[Deleted]

I agree with the comment above about Allied Powers breaking up so we could get Owen/Bulldog.

HOWEVER,

Allied Powers had this...the best music mash-up of all time!

[cordless2016]

Luger was never the most over face in the company. Bret was always #1. 1993 seemed like Vince was trying to create a whole new crop of superstars, and Luger as the new "American Hero" was thrown together so fast that it was obvious that he was being set up to be the new Hogan. I remember my older cousins not getting into him at all. The SS93 main event seemed to have been a test to see how over he was, and Bret was still clearly the #1 guy. It still baffels me that the origional plan was for Luger to get the title from Yoko at WM10 and then to supposedly have won a feud over Bret. Vince wanted Luger over badly but the fans just were not buying it. Bret was their guy and Luger, American Hero, Narcisist, or some other gimmick wern't gonna change that.

[Daniel F'n Bryan]

Dec 20, 2011 12:25:22 GMT -5 @bashcrashwiley said:

I agree with the comment above about Allied Powers breaking up so we could get Owen/Bulldog.

HOWEVER,

Allied Powers had this...the best music mash-up of all time!

that is a pretty sweet theme but wtf is up with their faces in that picture? lol