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Post by Himmy! on Dec 14, 2011 17:54:05 GMT -5
Hey guys.
I was also a fan of Raven in ECW, the character was brilliant at time and his feud with Tommy Dreamer was excellent. Some of Raven's promos in ECW were really great too.
I was wondering, how come it never really worked out for him in WCW or WWE? I know in both he didn't have Paul Heyman working with him but I still feel the character had a lot of potential and could have been shown to a much greater audience than ECW ever had. I'm guessing he didn't really have the look for WWE and with all the stars in WCW he didn't have much chance.
It's a shame, I always thought he could have been much more than he ever was.
Oppinions?
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koreygunz
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Post by koreygunz on Dec 14, 2011 18:20:46 GMT -5
He always seemed to get lost in the shuffle, or simply thrown into some ECW-type conglomerate.
I enjoyed him in WCW with the Flock. His matches with Benoit and DDP were really good. Then when he started the whole angle with Hak and Chastity he went downhill. The idea of this gothic guy actually being raised a rich spoild brat had potential, but like most things, WCW botched it and couldnt execute the idea well at all.
In WWE, he was never given a chance from the start. He was brought in as an ally to Taz (why?), who was feuding with Jerry Lawler (why?). Then he went nowhere. I think he gained a bit of momentum as the Hardcore champ, and then started a "7 Deadly Sins" angle on Heat that never went anywhere. I was always a fan of Raven, though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 18:29:48 GMT -5
While not a bad wrestler, he relied heavily on his gimmick. In the bigger organizations he didn't have such a following as he did in ECW. I think WCW just signed him to get him away from Heyman. Once there they tried rehashing his gimmick but it didn't get over as well. He had nothing to do in WWE either.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 18:31:29 GMT -5
I actually thought his WCW run was the most successful of his career. He was on mainstream television and working for the (then) #1 wrestling company in the world. He even held the United States title for a real short period from what I remember... He also made the cover of one of the greatest video games of all time:  So, in my opinion, for somebody not named "Hogan" or "Savage" or "Flair" or "Goldberg" he did pretty darn well for himself in WCW. However, his WWF run totally sucked. Remember when he lost a match and could no longer wrestle on Raw so they just stuck him as a permanent fixture on Sunday Night Heat? Lame. |
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Post by carling27 on Dec 14, 2011 18:48:36 GMT -5
I really miss seeing Raven on WWE TV. I honestly think he is one of the only people who could beat CM Punk on the mic. I loved his evenflow DDT, too. Such a missed chance.
Raven vs Kane vs Big Show will always be one of my favourite matches ever.
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Post by jammer311 on Dec 14, 2011 18:52:06 GMT -5
Raven said before that Vince's first words about seeing Raven in a WWE ring was, "We signed Raven?!?! Why the hell did we do that??"
Vince wasn't a fan of Raven. It dates back to his first run in WWE as Johnny Polo. He and Shane McMahon were best friends and Raven would take Shane out drinking and such all the time, and Shane wouldn't come home until late at night, all drugged up and drunk. And Vince was not a fan of that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 19:04:20 GMT -5
Yeah he did pretty well with his Flock in WCW. And still even now Revenge is one of the best games ever.
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Post by Himmy! on Dec 14, 2011 19:26:33 GMT -5
Yeah I guess you guys are right about him in WCW, he wasn't really a flop. Definitely didn't do much in the WWE though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 20:42:55 GMT -5
I really miss seeing Raven on WWE TV. I honestly think he is one of the only people who could beat CM Punk on the mic. I loved his evenflow DDT, too. Such a missed chance. Raven vs Kane vs Big Show will always be one of my favourite matches ever. I thought I was the only one. That is BY FAR my favorite Hardcore Championship match of all time. Also, to the guy who mentioned Vince not liking Raven...I totally believe that is possible. I could easily see Vince watching a Raven promo and then turning to Gerald Brisco and saying "I don't get it". |
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Post by K5 on Dec 14, 2011 21:38:20 GMT -5
raven did fairly damn well in wcw for sure, and of course ecw. wwe just had too much going on it would seem every time he was around.
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Post by kazoosandstreamers on Dec 14, 2011 23:24:07 GMT -5
As a kid I first saw Raven in WCW and became a huge fan just like that. Later, I watched his ECW stuff and became an even bigger fan. I even enjoyed some of his WWE stuff.
He should of been treated better in WWE, for sure.
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Post by K5 on Dec 15, 2011 0:09:09 GMT -5
i loved his style in wcw. his feud with goldberg is very memorable, and i loved how he'd just allow his entire flock to be demolished as he sat in the corner.
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Daniel F'n Bryan
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Post by Daniel F'n Bryan on Dec 15, 2011 8:47:23 GMT -5
I  ing loved Johnny Polo on commentary! Seriously i forget what DVD it is but theres a Shawn Michaels match on their with him doing the commentary and it was ing hilarious. For anybody that hasnt seen it i recommend checking out his commentary its funny stuff |
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Daniel F'n Bryan
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Post by Daniel F'n Bryan on Dec 15, 2011 8:49:59 GMT -5
Theres a ton of it in there its pretty funny stuff
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2011 13:31:09 GMT -5
yeah all you guys summed it up pretty well.
I liked his WCW time but like everyone else.....he wasnt nWo so he wasnt featured heavily enough.his WWF time was uninspired really and I totally buy Vince not liking him.he was one of the few guys Vince vetoed for ONS in 2005 as well.
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Post by jammer311 on Dec 15, 2011 13:59:34 GMT -5
I swear, it really does go back to when in 94 and Raven taking Shane McMahon out drinking and doing drugs. Raven even states it in his shoot. Vince never liked him after that.
Raven also said in it that he was supposed to stay with the WWE forever and be like the head agent of Raw. But Vince let him go after the way he partied with Shane so much.
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Bullgod
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Post by Bullgod on Dec 27, 2011 12:13:14 GMT -5
Raven in WCW was a huge hit, if it wasn't for the nWo who were around at the time I think Raven would have been headlining in his feuds with DDP, I think if people like Sting and others wern't wrapped up in the nWo storyline Raven could have done alot more, I loved his feuds with Perry Saturn, I think they had some fantastic matches. The whole Flock storyline was awesome, overall I think Raven did really well in WCW.
As for WWE then yeah, it really didn't work, I think the problem was WWE just wern't that interested in him and just signed him because just for the sake of it with no real plans for him. I don't think it helped that not long after WWE purchased WCW and Raven just got lost in the shuffle. Personally I feel WWE just made zero effort with Raven.
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