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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 15:34:23 GMT -5
Vince only changed his mind the day of the Rumble about Savage......which sucks.
Savage being the meticulous planner that he was already had Brets trip to florida planned to parctice in his personal ring-just like he had done with Flair the year before.
bah.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Oct 18, 2011 15:42:23 GMT -5
Warrior was very clumsy and often made mistakes BUT when he had someone good to lead him he was a very good worker at times. he was just a guy that needed instruction...theres no doubting his popularity or "overness" and its extremely unfair to judge him on the DVD alone-its far from an accurate portrayal of him or how he came to be in WWF.Vince(and others)are blatantly dishonest throughout. waht he did before Summerslam 91 was crap though. Thats a fair post. What I just hope people consider is that wrestling in the late 80's early 90's wasnt as "neat" as it is now. Now its really obvious when theres a botch because its almost like a performance. Guys like Hart and Mr Perfect stood out because they performed at a level ahead of there time in my opinion. Steamboat Savage performed art at Wrestlemania 3, Hart Perfect the same thing. But most of the big wigs like Hogan, Andre, Warrior just wrestled a different style match. People wanted to see the "Hulk up" followed by the 3 big moves. It was more about the look, charisma/ taunts and the fan interaction then it was the wrestling The Summerslam 91 stuff I take with a grain of salt because iv heard that more than just Warrior has done that to Vince. Does that make it right? Nope, But I think its unfair to hear just Vinces side of the story. Im sure we have all felt like we were being treated unfairley at work, Some people can handle it better then others. I find it hypocritical though that on the Warrior dvd they bash the hell out of him for doing that, But on the Jake Roberts dvd they laugh off the fact that Jake wasnt gonna go out and job to Taker unless he was released. I find it to be a BIGGER deal that he was holding up Wrestlemania but they just kinda laughed it off and said" No No, I didnt hold up Vince like Warrior did". Id love to hear how what Jake did was any different then what Warrior did. Its probably worse With Warrior it comes down to the same thing. You either love the guy and he can do no wrong, Or you hate the guy and he can do no right. |
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Post by gelatinoustapeworm on Oct 18, 2011 18:04:00 GMT -5
Ive heard the rumors on here before but Im curious as to what the "sources" for that line up really is. I just have a hard time believing that McMahon was going to let his 3 biggest stars for the past 10 years just get beat by someone that not many people believed at the time. I have to agree with this to some extent. I had always heard about the rumored match with Hogan, but had never heard anything about matches with Savage and Warrior until I saw it on here. Where did this rumor even come from? |
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Post by LeighD on Oct 18, 2011 20:03:30 GMT -5
Ive heard the rumors on here before but Im curious as to what the "sources" for that line up really is. I just have a hard time believing that McMahon was going to let his 3 biggest stars for the past 10 years just get beat by someone that not many people believed at the time. I have to agree with this to some extent. I had always heard about the rumored match with Hogan, but had never heard anything about matches with Savage and Warrior until I saw it on here. Where did this rumor even come from? In Bret's book in discusses a good deal about all three planned matches. I agree that Bret could have a great match with anyone. I've always been one of Bret's biggest fans and love his work regardless of his opponent. I've liked Warrior and was a big fan years ago. I do think (as some hav epointed out) when in the ring with certain guys, he could have great matches (Rude, Savage, Hogan, etc). Plus I think by 1992, Warrior did have a good work rate. I do think both would have sold for each other as I can picture Warrior tossing Bret around and selling Warrior's strength and power. Plus I can picture Warrior selling Bret's offense. |
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Post by comintogetcha on Oct 18, 2011 20:17:35 GMT -5
I've never heard of any of these plans. The Yokozuna push had always been in the cards, Warrior was going to be demoted down to the mid-card had he not quit once he realized he was going to get fired anyways as a scapegoat during the steroid investigation. Savage at Wrestlemania was also never in the plans, Vince didn't want Macho as a full time wrestler anymore, he wanted him to be an announcer and only wrestle part time. That's why Macho Man left in 1994, because he still felt he had a lot of offer in the ring. Bret vs Hogan was the plan for Summerslam however, but never happened since Hulk refused to do the job.
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Oct 18, 2011 21:51:48 GMT -5
I think Warrior would have sold for Bret. I mean...he sold for Savage at Wrestlemania VII in one of the best matches ever. very good point. Perhaps he would have. But Randy Savage, by 1992, had established himself as one of the absolute top guys in the industry and, over the course of 6 years or so, firmly established himself as a credible opponent for large and/or powerful opponents (Hogan, Andre, Twin Towers, etc). While Bret was just getting himself established as a main event singles star in 92-93, Savage was already an elite guy. I'd think Warrior would go out of his way for Savage due to this, more so than for Bret. |
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Post by Nivro™ on Oct 19, 2011 10:03:17 GMT -5
Ive heard the rumors on here before but Im curious as to what the "sources" for that line up really is. I just have a hard time believing that McMahon was going to let his 3 biggest stars for the past 10 years just get beat by someone that not many people believed at the time. Isn't that the best way to build up your next big star? By beating the big stars that came before, also known as passing of the torch. What did Vince have to lose by putting Bret over Warrior, Savage & Hulk in a calender year? Savage was only going to be a commentator from 1993 on in Vince's eyes, Hulk was only on a short deal & Warrior had a dodgy track record so could have been gone at anytime (just as we saw) I for one really believed in Bret as a credible champion after his matches against Perfect, Bulldog & HBK as I.C champion, Bret's match quality far surpassed any crap Warrior or Hulk did in 1990 & 1991 as WWF champs. I can see Bret over Warrior and even Bret over Savage but I think a lot of people would have thrown up a red flag with Bret over Hogan. At the time Hogan had still only been cleanly pinned once and that was by another larger then life person in Ultimate Warrior. Now I liked Bret a lot but even I would have been like WTF? if a much smaller Bret Hart would have gone over clean on the mighty Hulk Hogan. People were still craving the "larger then life" type characters in wrestling, hints why Luger got over (until he got drunk), Yoko was over. In WCW Vader was over. It was still the "big guys sport".....It would have been a great addition to his resume to say in Oct he beat Flair, Jan beats Warrior, April beats Savage and August beats Hogan. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2011 10:19:54 GMT -5
I've never heard of any of these plans. The Yokozuna push had always been in the cards, Warrior was going to be demoted down to the mid-card had he not quit once he realized he was going to get fired anyways as a scapegoat during the steroid investigation. Savage at Wrestlemania was also never in the plans, Vince didn't want Macho as a full time wrestler anymore, he wanted him to be an announcer and only wrestle part time. That's why Macho Man left in 1994, because he still felt he had a lot of offer in the ring. . Im sorry but you are wrong there man.Savage was pencilled in to win RR93 until Vince changed it last minute to Yoko. this was also 93........Vince hadnt written Savage out of his plans until 94......itw as in 94 that Savage and Vince parted on good terms over his future role in the company. Warrior being fired was a blow to Vince-he says that himself-if he had planned to make Warrior(one of his most OVER acts) a mid carder and scapegoat for they steroid trials why was he pushed so heavily in late 92 before his firing? many insiders feel that Warrior and DBS(who Vince loved)would have just a got a slap on the wrist iof it wasnt for what was happening in Vinnie outside world. |
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Post by Glorydaysofwrestling on Oct 19, 2011 15:26:36 GMT -5
Savage vs. Hitman would have been an instant classic and a dream match. I can see that Vince wanted to make new stars ie.Yoko, but he had a true legend right under his nose! Hogan and Hitman would have been interesting to watch...for some reason I think the fans would have sided with Bret. Most fans were getting sick of Hogans routine and lackluster performances. I would have really liked a Bret Hart/Macho Man fued for the title.
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HuskerTornado
Superstar
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Post by HuskerTornado on Oct 19, 2011 15:41:30 GMT -5
That seems like a strange set of matches. Babyface Bret was going to face babyface Warrior, babyface Macho Man, and babyface Hogan at the PPVs in one year? And he was going to get victories over all of them?
It might have been an idea tossed around, but I have a hard time believing that would have ever happened, even if Warrior had still been there.
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Post by mikey1974 on Oct 20, 2011 18:52:32 GMT -5
the biggest question,of all this is:
would Hogan ever have been willing to - cleanly - put Hart over?
Savage,yeah,i could see him doing that....Warrior,if he stayed,would've probably done it,but made himslef look "strong" in the process and made the victory feel/seem like Hart got "lucky"...
Hogan is another story,and still considered himslef to be the best/hottest/most over wrestler in 1993...i somehow doubt,no matter WHAT Vince's plans were,he would've willingly let Bret go over on him...
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Post by mikey1974 on Oct 20, 2011 19:04:50 GMT -5
here's a question:
WHY did Vince change the Rumble outcome? why not still have Savage win it,and face Hart at WM? i understand Warrior left,but,really,that should've only affected the Rumble title match ( which was changed to Razor),but that still doesn't explain why he decided to have Yoko win instead of Savage...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2011 20:43:39 GMT -5
I think Yoko got pushed through the roof simply because WWF had NO good major heels at the time.
Hence why Bret was set to face all good guys that year.
There were literally no main event heels at the beginning of 1993.
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Raine
Main Eventer
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Post by Raine on Oct 21, 2011 7:39:45 GMT -5
I think Yoko got pushed through the roof simply because WWF had NO good major heels at the time. Hence why Bret was set to face all good guys that year. There were literally no main event heels at the beginning of 1993. I think your right friend, with Warrior fired, the Rumble ME was changed to Razor vs Bret, but even at 12 years old I didn't think Razor had a chance of beating the Hitman, he just wasn't established enough. Flair asking to leave didn't help matters either, it probably contributed to the Rumble finish change from Macho to Yoko winning, and the push for Yoko as No.1 heel. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 9:37:31 GMT -5
you guys nailed it-they had no ME caliber heels.
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Post by LeighD on Oct 21, 2011 10:35:27 GMT -5
the biggest question,of all this is: would Hogan ever have been willing to - cleanly - put Hart over? Savage,yeah,i could see him doing that....Warrior,if he stayed,would've probably done it,but made himslef look "strong" in the process and made the victory feel/seem like Hart got "lucky"... Hogan is another story,and still considered himslef to be the best/hottest/most over wrestler in 1993...i somehow doubt,no matter WHAT Vince's plans were,he would've willingly let Bret go over on him... I think that question has already been answered in the fact the match never took place. Hogan and Hart reportedly had a "secret" photoshoot for the poster of SummerSlam. They wer eplaying tug-of-war with the belt much like the WWF magazine's cover with Hart & Diesel for the 1995 Survivor Series. Thus the plans were more or less to have Hart win the KOTR and Hogan retain against Yokozuna. Some time before KOTR, Hogan I BELIEVE refused to put over Bret claiming he wasn't ready or too small or one of the other million excuses Hogan always has on deck. On a different note, the more Savage vs. Hart at WrestleMania IX is talked about the more I wish it had happened. That was a classic waiting to happen that sadly will never happen. |
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Post by jammer311 on Oct 21, 2011 11:04:20 GMT -5
Hart and Savage did happen a year later though. Right after WM 10 when they toured Japan. There is pics in a PWI Magazine to prove it. From what the story said about it, the match was amazing and was probably the best title match Bret had ever had.
But as for the Rumble decision, I still can't believe Savage was meant to win that. Clearly Yokozuna was set to win it, they built him up like crazy going into it.
And for the Warrior vs. Bret at Rumble, I can't believe that either. They had Razor vs. Bret matches happening before Bret won the title, then they had Razor go over Savage a few times to set up him getting the title shot. And all the things leading up to it with Razor beating up Owen and such. No way can I believe that Warrior was gonna face Bret at the Rumble. That just sounds like a wild fantasy that has taken a life of its own over the years on the in-ter-web.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 11:08:24 GMT -5
I believe Bret talks about these things in his book?I dont have it but I think its mentioned in this thread.
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Post by Nivro™ on Oct 21, 2011 13:06:42 GMT -5
the biggest question,of all this is: would Hogan ever have been willing to - cleanly - put Hart over? Savage,yeah,i could see him doing that....Warrior,if he stayed,would've probably done it,but made himslef look "strong" in the process and made the victory feel/seem like Hart got "lucky"... Hogan is another story,and still considered himslef to be the best/hottest/most over wrestler in 1993...i somehow doubt,no matter WHAT Vince's plans were,he would've willingly let Bret go over on him... If I was Hogan, I wouldnt have put Hart over. Especially if I had plans to continue my career either in WWF or WCW. Lets me honest, the only person to have "almost" equal fan base as Hogan was Warrior. He put him over and it flubbed. I wouldnt put someone over that was nearly half the size of me and didnt have as strong as a fan base as I did knowing that I was going to continue my career and knowing the "Immortality" that my character was based off of would be hurt by the loss. |
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Post by LeighD on Oct 21, 2011 13:21:46 GMT -5
Hart and Savage did happen a year later though. Right after WM 10 when they toured Japan. There is pics in a PWI Magazine to prove it. From what the story said about it, the match was amazing and was probably the best title match Bret had ever had. But as for the Rumble decision, I still can't believe Savage was meant to win that. Clearly Yokozuna was set to win it, they built him up like crazy going into it. And for the Warrior vs. Bret at Rumble, I can't believe that either. They had Razor vs. Bret matches happening before Bret won the title, then they had Razor go over Savage a few times to set up him getting the title shot. And all the things leading up to it with Razor beating up Owen and such. No way can I believe that Warrior was gonna face Bret at the Rumble. That just sounds like a wild fantasy that has taken a life of its own over the years on the in-ter-web. I know Savage vs. Bret did happen several times over the course of the next 5-6 years. But the two on the grandest stage for the WWF Title would have been gravy! Bret did mention in his book (I will try and type up the exact paragraph later) he couldn't envision tying up Warrior in the sharpshooter anymore because he had just been fired/released/etc. I hadn't heard a peep of this until Bret's book. |
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