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Post by Iron Man on Apr 10, 2009 15:38:13 GMT -5
Doesn't this remind anyone of Hogan and Savage. I believe every World title Savage had, he dropped it to Hogan.
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Post by carly1988 on Apr 10, 2009 15:57:41 GMT -5
Doesn't this remind anyone of Hogan and Savage. I believe every World title Savage had, he dropped it to Hogan. actually he dropped his 2nd title to Ric Flair
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Post by drakerko on Apr 10, 2009 16:06:59 GMT -5
Triple H is so boring and stale. He should just let Orton get a clean victory over him and gtfo. He's only a decent face when he's part of DX. Turn him heel and send him to ECW.
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Post by Johnny Wrestling on Apr 10, 2009 16:11:59 GMT -5
Orton has just been buried too much in general, same with Jericho. To me, they need to give the top heels more leverage because recently all of them just look fully incompetent and weak. I know a heel is supposed to be cowardly, but you're supposed to think they at least maybe COULD possibly beat a top face. HHH has beaten Orton so many times, and so decisively so many times, that there is no reason to ever think Orton could be competition to HHH. You go it dude. I mean, not because you are a heel you have to be coward. You can be heel because you don't really care about your opponent, you will be a cold blood guy who wants to see his opponent suffer. Or a guy who doesn't really need to cheat to win, but if he needs to, he will. Those are heels too. I would like to see that kind of guys.
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bigtaurus78
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Post by bigtaurus78 on Apr 10, 2009 16:12:48 GMT -5
Doesn't this remind anyone of Hogan and Savage. I believe every World title Savage had, he dropped it to Hogan. It doesn't remind me one bit for the simple fact that Hogan didn't beat him every time for a world title and Randy Savage is monumentally better than Randy Orton can ever hope to be. Seriously, Orton is lucky to have a job let alone be a world champion. He's failed as a face champion and as a heel champion as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2009 16:14:26 GMT -5
....I highly doubt that somehow. Orton did little by himself to truly get himself over. Something HHH is familiar with. HHH DID NOT get himself over like The Rock or Stone Cold for example. People didn't even "buy" HHH as a Main Event talent until he went over Foley THREE straight times in 2000. HHH wasn't even consistently drawing major reactions in 1999 and he STILL became WWF Champion. -In 1997 he rode Shawn Michaels back. -In 1998 he formed a new DX with ALREADY over X-Pac,Billy Gunn&Road Dogg. -In 1999 he had Stephanie McMahon by the end of the year to boost his heat. -In 2000 he had to "retire" Foley and defeat The Rock at WM 16 to become the first heel ever to walk out as WWF Champion for more heat. HHH isn't self-made.All of his success is the result of overpushing and him befriending Shawn Michaels.
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Post by Johnny Wrestling on Apr 10, 2009 16:18:38 GMT -5
Doesn't this remind anyone of Hogan and Savage. I believe every World title Savage had, he dropped it to Hogan. It doesn't remind me one bit for the simple fact that Hogan didn't beat him every time for a world title and Randy Savage is monumentally better than Randy Orton can ever hope to be. Seriously, Orton is lucky to have a job let alone be a world champion. He's failed as a face champion and as a heel champion as well.That is YOUR opinion. ____________________________________________ Orton did little by himself to truly get himself over. Something HHH is familiar with. HHH DID NOT get himself over like The Rock or Stone Cold for example. People didn't even "buy" HHH as a Main Event talent until he went over Foley THREE straight times in 2000. HHH wasn't even consistently drawing major reactions in 1999 and he STILL became WWF Champion. -In 1997 he rode Shawn Michaels back. -In 1998 he formed a new DX with ALREADY over X-Pac,Billy Gunn&Road Dogg. -In 1999 he had Stephanie McMahon by the end of the year to boost his heat. -In 2000 he had to "retire" Foley and defeat The Rock at WM 16 to become the first heel ever to walk out as WWF Champion for more heat. HHH isn't self-made.All of his success is the result of overpushing and him befriending Shawn Michaels. Dude, Triple H has worked, and works really hard. He busted his ass to get where he is now. And no, I am not on Triple H's side on this. I mean, I hate how he has always defeated Orton, except for one night in which Triple H already had 2 matches, but lets be honest, the guy deserves all of his accomplishments.
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bigtaurus78
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Joined on: Aug 25, 2006 7:14:23 GMT -5
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Post by bigtaurus78 on Apr 10, 2009 16:20:15 GMT -5
He's failed as a face champion and as a heel champion as well. That is YOUR opinion. Okay champ, explain how he succeeded then? I'm really interested in knowing.
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Post by Johnny Wrestling on Apr 10, 2009 16:23:23 GMT -5
Okay champ, explain how he succeeded then? I'm really interested in knowing. I liked his title runs. And that's it. I don't care what anyone says. I liked them, and nobody is gonna change that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2009 16:28:36 GMT -5
It doesn't remind me one bit for the simple fact that Hogan didn't beat him every time for a world title and Randy Savage is monumentally better than Randy Orton can ever hope to be. Seriously, Orton is lucky to have a job let alone be a world champion. He's failed as a face champion and as a heel champion as well.That is YOUR opinion. ____________________________________________ Something HHH is familiar with. HHH DID NOT get himself over like The Rock or Stone Cold for example. People didn't even "buy" HHH as a Main Event talent until he went over Foley THREE straight times in 2000. HHH wasn't even consistently drawing major reactions in 1999 and he STILL became WWF Champion. -In 1997 he rode Shawn Michaels back. -In 1998 he formed a new DX with ALREADY over X-Pac,Billy Gunn&Road Dogg. -In 1999 he had Stephanie McMahon by the end of the year to boost his heat. -In 2000 he had to "retire" Foley and defeat The Rock at WM 16 to become the first heel ever to walk out as WWF Champion for more heat. HHH isn't self-made.All of his success is the result of overpushing and him befriending Shawn Michaels. Dude, Triple H has worked, and works really hard. He busted his ass to get where he is now. And no, I am not on Triple H's side on this. I mean, I hate how he has always defeated Orton, except for one night in which Triple H already had 2 matches, but lets be honest, the guy deserves all of his accomplishments. That's awesome. He's still OVERPUSHED and wasn't special enough to create his own heat solo like a Rocky or Austin. The guy shouldn't even be a 14 time World Champion.He's been handed a World Title and wasn't even that over in 1999. Somehow he still became WWF Champion...
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bigtaurus78
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Joined on: Aug 25, 2006 7:14:23 GMT -5
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Post by bigtaurus78 on Apr 10, 2009 16:33:40 GMT -5
Okay champ, explain how he succeeded then? I'm really interested in knowing. I liked his title runs. And that's it. I don't care what anyone says. I liked them, and nobody is gonna change that. And that's YOUR opinion, too. But just because you openly admit to liking his title reigns does not change the fact that Orton as champion simply does not work. People can hate Triple H all they want, but Randy Orton must be doing something wrong if a guy like Cena can be champion over Triple H while Orton gets the gold so briefly.
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Post by Adam on Apr 10, 2009 16:35:59 GMT -5
He has broken enough wellness policies and backstage rules to warrant being released, and he is hardly a major draw. People act like the guy has never been given a chance even though he was WWE champion from October 2007 to April 2008. Orton is hardly being held down or buried, he's lucky that he is WWE's image of everything a superstar should look like. This.
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Post by sean™ on Apr 10, 2009 16:43:08 GMT -5
Randy Orton:
1x IC Champion (Longest Reigning champ for the past 11 years) 1x World Heavyweight Champion (Youngest Ever) 2x WWE Champion (First person to become a multi-time champion in one night) 1x Tag Team Champion 1x Royal Rumble Winner
I'd call that pretty successful.
As far as his title reigns not being successful, shall we take a look at how they happened?
1. WHC - No less then a month after he wins it, he is completely buried by HHH, losing it to him after a Sledgehammer shot.
2. WWE Title - With Cena out of action (the person whom Randy was fueding with prior), Orton was thrown 5 different people in a matter of 6 months. By the time he was able to actually fued with someone, and have a long fued that told a story, not only had he already been cleanly pinned by HHH, but he was then injured by......HHH.
Now, after having almost 8 months of a push that built him up to be one of the most uncaring, sinister, sick and twisted heels for sometime, going so far as to hold a grudge of 5 years, which proved that he was smart, as well as willing to wait for the "right moment" (Something people take for granted in a good Heel), It was all undone and made to look completely pointless in a matter of 3 minutes.....once again...by HHH.
3 - Punt to the head 2 - Sledgehammer to the face 1 - Pedigree
Really WWE? In a match where, once again, Orton got little to no offense against HHH, you had to go and have HHH pretty much destroy Orton, and make it look extremely easy in the process.
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Post by Jimmy on Apr 10, 2009 16:43:37 GMT -5
Orton did little by himself to truly get himself over. Something HHH is familiar with. HHH DID NOT get himself over like The Rock or Stone Cold for example. People didn't even "buy" HHH as a Main Event talent until he went over Foley THREE straight times in 2000. HHH wasn't even consistently drawing major reactions in 1999 and he STILL became WWF Champion. -In 1997 he rode Shawn Michaels back. -In 1998 he formed a new DX with ALREADY over X-Pac,Billy Gunn&Road Dogg. -In 1999 he had Stephanie McMahon by the end of the year to boost his heat. -In 2000 he had to "retire" Foley and defeat The Rock at WM 16 to become the first heel ever to walk out as WWF Champion for more heat. HHH isn't self-made.All of his success is the result of overpushing and him befriending Shawn Michaels. oh don't get me wrong, i'm hardly a triple h fan. he got pushed to the moon in 1999 even though nobody was buying into it and they used every tactic possible to get him over. but the one thing I have to give HHH is that he can atleast deliver in the ring when it matters. other than a period after he returned from injury until early 2004 when he was pretty dull in the ring, he can be counted on to go out and have a good match. orton's dazzling array of chinlocks after he's been in the business for almost 10 years is one of the least impressive things i've ever seen. cena has improved leaps and bounds and orton still goes out there and puts the crowd to sleep.
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Post by sean™ on Apr 10, 2009 16:45:50 GMT -5
I'm still confused by the chinlock thing. Did he used to pull them out more often then a punch or kick? Yes.
Does he do that now? NO.
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Post by cenaroxorz123 on Apr 10, 2009 16:48:20 GMT -5
I doubt Orton minds jobbing to Triple H; he'd be nothing without him. But it does get kind of boring from a viewer's perspective. People were defending HHH/Orton main eventing WrestleMania because they worked so well together and could do something different, but there is no defending this feud anymore. It's the same thing we've seen before.
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Post by drakerko on Apr 10, 2009 16:48:30 GMT -5
Simple fact is that Triple H buries anyone who gets remotely popular. Orton now. Booker T, Scott Steiner, Rob Van Dam, Kane, Jeff Hardy, Chris Jericho etc. He's a burial machine!
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Post by cenaroxorz123 on Apr 10, 2009 16:50:11 GMT -5
Simple fact is that Triple H buries anyone who gets remotely popular. Orton now. Booker T, Scott Steiner, Rob Van Dam, Kane, Jeff Hardy, Chris Jericho etc. He's a burial machine! .....? How many times has Jeff defeated Triple H?
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Post by Jimmy on Apr 10, 2009 16:53:10 GMT -5
I'm still confused by the chinlock thing. Did he used to pull them out more often then a punch or kick? Yes. Does he do that now? NO. he pulled it out at wrestlemania, and you could see the crowd dying even more.
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Post by sean™ on Apr 10, 2009 16:54:22 GMT -5
I'm still confused by the chinlock thing. Did he used to pull them out more often then a punch or kick? Yes. Does he do that now? NO. he pulled it out at wrestlemania, and you could see the crowd dying even more. Pulling it out at WM and doing it all the time are two different things. Not to mention, that crowd was dead before HHH/Orton even started. You could clearly see people leaving after Undertaker/HBK.
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