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Post by theMOESIAH on Feb 27, 2015 11:30:17 GMT -5
One thing I don't understand is why the disenchanted "fans" have to talk down to those that actually enjoy it. They talk down to those that love the network. They talk down to those that do not want to jump ship over a predetermined outcome. Just because you may not like an outcome does not mean you have to hate on everything. Why do you care that others are enjoying it? If I stopped watching wrestling the first time I didn't agree with an outcome I would have stopped watching within a month. It's kinda sad really, that a wrestling fan can't be on a wrestling forum without being told they swallow crap by the high and mighty (so called) fans. We are here because we either enjoy WWE. You are here to constantly cry and complain about anything/everything you can. So which sounds more productive? My problem, as I have started a few times in this thread now, is that I am being told that I am wrong for not liking something. Rarely do I last out without some kind of provocation. I am not wrong for not liking the current product and I am not wrong for not wanting to pay for something I don't like. That doesn't make me any less of a wrestling fan, nor does it put me in the wrong in any situation. Contrary to it may sound like, I got the WWE continues to do well. I hope they do great business and the Network becomes such a success that many other companies follow suit and offer a similar service. However, I will not be supporting them with my money until they start giving me a product that I personally like and feel is with my money (and before anyone starts, I an not asking for a return to the Attitude Era). Until then I am more than happy with New Japan, ROH and Lucha Underground. I keep checking in with WWE and these boards because I want to be a fan. I want to like the product. In fact I've been watching it more often recently because I want to like it. I was a loyal diehard WWF/E fan from roughly 1986 until the a little after the WWECW debacle. I realized that I had mentally checked out of the product during the Invasion angle and hadn't enjoyed it since. It got to the point where I was watching maybe 3 minutes of a 2 hour show. Up until that point I bought tons of merchandise add nearly every PPV. But I no longer liked the product so I stopped giving them my money. And I wasn't wrong for doing that, which again is my entire point.
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Post by marino13 on Feb 27, 2015 11:40:46 GMT -5
One thing I don't understand is why the disenchanted "fans" have to talk down to those that actually enjoy it. They talk down to those that love the network. They talk down to those that do not want to jump ship over a predetermined outcome. Just because you may not like an outcome does not mean you have to hate on everything. Why do you care that others are enjoying it? If I stopped watching wrestling the first time I didn't agree with an outcome I would have stopped watching within a month. It's kinda sad really, that a wrestling fan can't be on a wrestling forum without being told they swallow crap by the high and mighty (so called) fans. We are here because we either enjoy WWE. You are here to constantly cry and complain about anything/everything you can. So which sounds more productive? My problem, as I have started a few times in this thread now, is that I am being told that I am wrong for not liking something. Rarely do I last out without some kind of provocation. I am not wrong for not liking the current product and I am not wrong for not wanting to pay for something I don't like. That doesn't make me any less of a wrestling fan, nor does it put me in the wrong in any situation. Contrary to it may sound like, I got the WWE continues to do well. I hope they do great business and the Network becomes such a success that many other companies follow suit and offer a similar service. However, I will not be supporting them with my money until they start giving me a product that I personally like and feel is with my money (and before anyone starts, I an not asking for a return to the Attitude Era). Until then I am more than happy with New Japan, ROH and Lucha Underground. I keep checking in with WWE and these boards because I want to be a fan. I want to like the product. In fact I've been watching it more often recently because I want to like it. I was a loyal diehard WWF/E fan from roughly 1986 until the a little after the WWECW debacle. I realized that I had mentally checked out of the product during the Invasion angle and hadn't enjoyed it since. It got to the point where I was watching maybe 3 minutes of a 2 hour show. Up until that point I bought tons of merchandise add nearly every PPV. But I no longer liked the product so I stopped giving them my money. And I wasn't wrong for doing that, which again is my entire point. But how can you be offended that a WWE message board generally supports WWE? If I went to a New England Patriots message board to complain about the Patriots I assume I would get attacked as well. I would not be welcomed. And rightfully so. It's the same thing for this place. Most of us are here because we enjoy WWE, most are here because we want to talk to other wrestling fans. Not to constantly be bombarded with complaints and people looking for excuses to convince us to cancel our network. We are here because we want to be not because of some dying desire to make a change.
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Post by LostHawk05 on Feb 27, 2015 11:44:22 GMT -5
I enjoy the Network. I feel it's worth the $9.99. If you don't, for whatever reason it may be, I'm cool with that. Can't we all just get along?
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Post by theMOESIAH on Feb 27, 2015 12:01:47 GMT -5
My problem, as I have started a few times in this thread now, is that I am being told that I am wrong for not liking something. Rarely do I last out without some kind of provocation. I am not wrong for not liking the current product and I am not wrong for not wanting to pay for something I don't like. That doesn't make me any less of a wrestling fan, nor does it put me in the wrong in any situation. Contrary to it may sound like, I got the WWE continues to do well. I hope they do great business and the Network becomes such a success that many other companies follow suit and offer a similar service. However, I will not be supporting them with my money until they start giving me a product that I personally like and feel is with my money (and before anyone starts, I an not asking for a return to the Attitude Era). Until then I am more than happy with New Japan, ROH and Lucha Underground. I keep checking in with WWE and these boards because I want to be a fan. I want to like the product. In fact I've been watching it more often recently because I want to like it. I was a loyal diehard WWF/E fan from roughly 1986 until the a little after the WWECW debacle. I realized that I had mentally checked out of the product during the Invasion angle and hadn't enjoyed it since. It got to the point where I was watching maybe 3 minutes of a 2 hour show. Up until that point I bought tons of merchandise add nearly every PPV. But I no longer liked the product so I stopped giving them my money. And I wasn't wrong for doing that, which again is my entire point. But how can you be offended that a WWE message board generally supports WWE? If I went to a New England Patriots message board to complain about the Patriots I assume I would get attacked as well. I would not be welcomed. And rightfully so. It's the same thing for this place. Most of us are here because we enjoy WWE, most are here because we want to talk to other wrestling fans. Not to constantly be bombarded with complaints and people looking for excuses to convince us to cancel our network. We are here because we want to be not because of some dying desire to make a change. But I'm not offended that anyone supports WWE. I do get offended when I'm constantly told that I wrong or delusional or an idiot or whatever for not wanting to pay for something I don't like. So then I push back. Probably not the best way to hands things, I'll admit. I'm a writer and once I get going it's kind of hard to stop sometimes. That's a big part of it but it doesn't change the sentiment behind it. But there is trolling on both sides. Some guys that like the current product want to act like they're in the right busy because they aren't dissatisfied with the product. I disagree. Like I said, I want to be a fan. That's why I come here. And in my defense, I've never once told anyone to cancel their subscription or to do anything ether with their money. I don't represent some grand movement. I speak only for myself.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 12:34:29 GMT -5
But how can you be offended that a WWE message board generally supports WWE? If I went to a New England Patriots message board to complain about the Patriots I assume I would get attacked as well. I would not be welcomed. And rightfully so. It's the same thing for this place. Most of us are here because we enjoy WWE, most are here because we want to talk to other wrestling fans. Not to constantly be bombarded with complaints and people looking for excuses to convince us to cancel our network. We are here because we want to be not because of some dying desire to make a change. But I'm not offended that anyone supports WWE. I do get offended when I'm constantly told that I wrong or delusional or an idiot or whatever for not wanting to pay for something I don't like. So then I push back. Probably not the best way to hands things, I'll admit. I'm a writer and once I get going it's kind of hard to stop sometimes. That's a big part of it but it doesn't change the sentiment behind it. But there is trolling on both sides. Some guys that like the current product want to act like they're in the right busy because they aren't dissatisfied with the product. I disagree. Like I said, I want to be a fan. That's why I come here. And in my defense, I've never once told anyone to cancel their subscription or to do anything ether with their money. I don't represent some grand movement. I speak only for myself. You're not paying for just the current product though. That's the part that you don't understand. Nobody really cares if you like what's on TV right now. NXT and the thousands of hours of old content us why I'm subscribed. Take away NXT and I might be more weary about it. I don't care for the product on TV, but why should that stop me from enjoying the shows I loved? Or from seeing how bright the future is via NXT?
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Post by theMOESIAH on Feb 27, 2015 14:57:37 GMT -5
But I'm not offended that anyone supports WWE. I do get offended when I'm constantly told that I wrong or delusional or an idiot or whatever for not wanting to pay for something I don't like. So then I push back. Probably not the best way to hands things, I'll admit. I'm a writer and once I get going it's kind of hard to stop sometimes. That's a big part of it but it doesn't change the sentiment behind it. But there is trolling on both sides. Some guys that like the current product want to act like they're in the right busy because they aren't dissatisfied with the product. I disagree. Like I said, I want to be a fan. That's why I come here. And in my defense, I've never once told anyone to cancel their subscription or to do anything ether with their money. I don't represent some grand movement. I speak only for myself. You're not paying for just the current product though. That's the part that you don't understand. Nobody really cares if you like what's on TV right now. NXT and the thousands of hours of old content us why I'm subscribed. Take away NXT and I might be more weary about it. I don't care for the product on TV, but why should that stop me from enjoying the shows I loved? Or from seeing how bright the future is via NXT? Again, I'm not telling anyone to not subscribe or cancel their subscription. That has never been my position. I know that's what the #cancelthenetwork thing was about, but like I said in an earlier post, I can only speak for myself. And I don't care what anyone does with their money. Before the Network, what was one of the biggest signs that the company was doing well? PPV buyrates. And now Network subscribers have replaced PPV purchases for the most part. So yeah, the number of subscribers, among other things, will tell them whether or not the fans are enjoying the product. But all of this is more or less moot because my while point from the very beginning (aside from not liking the product) was that I'm not wrong for not supporting something I don't like. My issue is with the people that say things like "people that cancel their subscriptions because they don't like what WWE is doing make me sick." There have been many, many things said just like that. It's okay for me to not pay for something I don't want just like it's okay for any of you to pay for something you do want. That whole freedom of opinion and choice thing is a two way street.
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Post by marino13 on Feb 27, 2015 15:08:35 GMT -5
But how can you be offended that a WWE message board generally supports WWE? If I went to a New England Patriots message board to complain about the Patriots I assume I would get attacked as well. I would not be welcomed. And rightfully so. It's the same thing for this place. Most of us are here because we enjoy WWE, most are here because we want to talk to other wrestling fans. Not to constantly be bombarded with complaints and people looking for excuses to convince us to cancel our network. We are here because we want to be not because of some dying desire to make a change. But I'm not offended that anyone supports WWE. I do get offended when I'm constantly told that I wrong or delusional or an idiot or whatever for not wanting to pay for something I don't like. So then I push back. Probably not the best way to hands things, I'll admit. I'm a writer and once I get going it's kind of hard to stop sometimes. That's a big part of it but it doesn't change the sentiment behind it. But there is trolling on both sides. Some guys that like the current product want to act like they're in the right busy because they aren't dissatisfied with the product. I disagree. Like I said, I want to be a fan. That's why I come here. And in my defense, I've never once told anyone to cancel their subscription or to do anything ether with their money. I don't represent some grand movement. I speak only for myself. I want to like NBA basketball like I used to. I really do. But I don't go to NBA message boards and tell them how it's not the same since Jordan retired. And if I did, I'd fully expect for the fans to tell me to F' off. If you don't like something that is fine. You don't have to. Nobody is saying you do. But don't act so surprised that others here are willing to defend it. For the record the subscription comment was more towards that one goof who is constantly trying to convince others to cancel their network.
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Post by J12 on Feb 27, 2015 15:21:24 GMT -5
I love the Network and hope it can be successful, because, simply put,I'm a wrestling fan and I don't want to lose it.
I feel like I get my money's worth on a monthly basis, simply with NXT and the Pay-Per-Views alone, even if they aren't all that great. The additional VOD content, which I'm watching plenty of during Wrestlemania season, is just icing on the cake.
So, despite me thinking that moving forward with Roman Reigns in the main event of Wrestlemania and shoving Daniel Bryan to the side is one of the most idiotic, illogical, and stubborn decisions I've ever seen in my sixteen years as a wrestling fan, I never once thought about unsubscribing. Partially because I know that, eventually, this angle will blow over and things will return to some respectable condition again, and also because I want this thing to succeed so that when the product is worth spending money on, I have the Network to allow me to enjoy it to the fullest at an affordable and reasonable price point.
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Post by JC Motors on Feb 27, 2015 15:46:15 GMT -5
If the cancellation rate continues the network will end up like the XFL
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Feb 27, 2015 15:51:43 GMT -5
If the cancellation rate continues the network will end up like the XFL I don't see that happening whatsoever.
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Post by JC Motors on Feb 27, 2015 15:56:00 GMT -5
If the cancellation rate continues the network will end up like the XFL I don't see that happening whatsoever. You never know
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Post by ¡Twist Of Cinnamon! on Feb 27, 2015 22:51:16 GMT -5
Not really. It just means some people won't instantly dismiss the WWE when someone they like loses. I didn't like the way the Rumble was booked (the winner was fine though) but I chose not to cancel my subscription to the Network. It doesn't mean I'm 'swallowing crap' so to speak, it just means I choose to keep watching to see how it develops. Take the latest AC/DC album Rock Or Bust for example. I'm not that big a fan of the song 'Miss Adventure' but I'm not going to condemn them straight away because of that one thing. I will keep buying their music, merch and concert tickets. The lack of six month commitment has really allowed these sort of people to show through. The ones that will complain and unsubscribe in February and resubscribe in March. The type of person that supports a team when they're winning and abandons them after a loss. This is exactly what I'm taking about. Compete misdirection. Nearly every post I've seen on the subject are people complaining about the overall product as a whole, but the WWE diehards always boil it down to one loss or fumbled push. You change the narrative to something that it was never meant to be and respond to that. Did I mention any one wrestler our match? No, but that's where you took the conversation. It happens literally every time I try to talk about this here. Do I like Daniel Bryan? Do I like Reigns? Not really. But this situation isn't enough to stop liking the product. What the WWE had been putting on TV for years had been bad television. It's unwatchable. That's my problem. I've been a wrestling fan for 28 of my 30 years. I've seen many guys get passed over. I've seen guys who would have been fantastic main eventers never get their shot. I don't know how to make this any more clear to you people: THIS. ISN'T. ABOUT. DANIEL. BRYAN. I never mentioned Daniel Bryan, you did. If you don't like the current product then why have a go at those that do? Me or anyone else liking the WWE doesn't affect you in any way. Take the latest AC/DC album Rock Or Bust for example. I'm not that big a fan of the song 'Miss Adventure' but I'm not going to condemn them straight away because of that one thing. Damn, that's like my second fave off the record after "Dogs of War" It was the first song I didn't like too much that came to mind off that album. I should have chosen Sweet Candy instead.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Feb 28, 2015 0:21:02 GMT -5
So was the article amended to remove a false figure? I never mentioned Daniel Bryan, you did. Excellent work!
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Post by theMOESIAH on Feb 28, 2015 0:25:12 GMT -5
This is exactly what I'm taking about. Compete misdirection. Nearly every post I've seen on the subject are people complaining about the overall product as a whole, but the WWE diehards always boil it down to one loss or fumbled push. You change the narrative to something that it was never meant to be and respond to that. Did I mention any one wrestler our match? No, but that's where you took the conversation. It happens literally every time I try to talk about this here. Do I like Daniel Bryan? Do I like Reigns? Not really. But this situation isn't enough to stop liking the product. What the WWE had been putting on TV for years had been bad television. It's unwatchable. That's my problem. I've been a wrestling fan for 28 of my 30 years. I've seen many guys get passed over. I've seen guys who would have been fantastic main eventers never get their shot. I don't know how to make this any more clear to you people: THIS. ISN'T. ABOUT. DANIEL. BRYAN. I never mentioned Daniel Bryan, you did. If you don't like the current product then why have a go at those that do? Me or anyone else liking the WWE doesn't affect you in any way. Damn, that's like my second fave off the record after "Dogs of War" It was the first song I didn't like too much that came to mind off that album. I should have chosen Sweet Candy instead. Somebody mentioned Daniel Bryan. There was a couple people I was responding to in this thread. I'd rather just let this go. I really don't want to argue with anyone about this. My intention wasn't to turn this into an argument about WWE. My initial problem was people saying those of us who are unhappy with the product don't like it because of the outcomes of a match or two that we didn't like, despite it being said several times (by several people) that that isn't the case. That and those same people saying that we are wrong or not real fans or whatever for not wanting to support the WWE anymore. My first post in this thread was about that but I made a comment about the current product that I shouldn't have made and that overshadowed everything else I said. It snowballed and just became arguing for the sake of arguing. I just want to say one last time that I do not care how anyone spends their money. I have never tried to get anyone to cancel their subscription or stop watching WWE. I do not like the current product and add yes I do "blame" (for lack of a better term) the people who enjoy the product. Because if there wasn't enough support for the product, their be forced to change it. If this is your personal taste, that's fine. I'm more than happy with Lucha Underground, NJPW and ROH. I've already said what my intention was and I said these same things in my other posts, although not as calmly. I don't want to argue about this. It isn't worth any more of my time. But just to be clear, I don't sit around stressing about what wrestling shows anybody else watches
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Feb 28, 2015 0:48:35 GMT -5
I'm more than happy with Lucha Underground, NJPW and ROH. I have my doubts when people say that. People who are really happy with the alternatives don't need to spend time complaining about WWE. For people to complain about WWE so much, it makes me think that all the other promotions must be so bad if hating WWE is a more preferable pasttime for people rather than enjoying ROH etc.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2015 1:28:42 GMT -5
I'm more than happy with Lucha Underground, NJPW and ROH. I have my doubts when people say that. People who are really happy with the alternatives don't need to spend time complaining about WWE. For people to complain about WWE so much, it makes me think that all the other promotions must be so bad if hating WWE is a more preferable pasttime for people rather than enjoying ROH etc. Yep. I'm not a big fan of the current product, but I check out NJPW or PWG in the meantime. I could come here and bitch for months on end about it, but why bother?
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Post by theMOESIAH on Mar 2, 2015 16:17:53 GMT -5
¡Twist Of Cinnamon!, @kidxlolz, marino13, @pooky, Andrewghbk99I'm sorry to bump this thread. I really thought about just letting things go but I just have to apologize to everyone. Without getting into to much detail, I've got something pretty major going on in my life right now and for reasons that I don't quite understand everything that's going on manifested itself as a psychotic rant on a toy forum. That first justify or excuse my behavior but I've given everyone here the completely wrong idea of who I am. And just once more to everyone I tagged, anyone I may have forgotten to tag, everyone else who read this thread and to the mods that have to deal with this nonsense, I am very sorry and this will not happen again.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2015 16:59:46 GMT -5
¡Twist Of Cinnamon!, @kidxlolz, marino13, @pooky, Andrewghbk99I'm sorry to bump this thread. I really thought about just letting things go but I just have to apologize to everyone. Without getting into to much detail, I've got something pretty major going on in my life right now and for reasons that I don't quite understand everything that's going on manifested itself as a psychotic rant on a toy forum. That first justify or excuse my behavior but I've given everyone here the completely wrong idea of who I am. And just once more to everyone I tagged, anyone I may have forgotten to tag, everyone else who read this thread and to the mods that have to deal with this nonsense, I am very sorry and this will not happen again. Everyone has problems, some just handle theirs differently than others. No worries.
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Post by marino13 on Mar 2, 2015 17:15:42 GMT -5
¡Twist Of Cinnamon!, @kidxlolz, marino13, @pooky, Andrewghbk99I'm sorry to bump this thread. I really thought about just letting things go but I just have to apologize to everyone. Without getting into to much detail, I've got something pretty major going on in my life right now and for reasons that I don't quite understand everything that's going on manifested itself as a psychotic rant on a toy forum. That first justify or excuse my behavior but I've given everyone here the completely wrong idea of who I am. And just once more to everyone I tagged, anyone I may have forgotten to tag, everyone else who read this thread and to the mods that have to deal with this nonsense, I am very sorry and this will not happen again. Everyone has problems, some just handle theirs differently than others. No worries. I punch babies when I have bad days. Their heads are soft and they don't hit back, so it's a win/win.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2015 17:16:03 GMT -5
Everyone has problems, some just handle theirs differently than others. No worries. I punch babies when I have bad days. Their heads are soft and they don't hit back, so it's a win/win. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
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