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Post by Andrewghbk99 on Oct 27, 2014 13:31:17 GMT -5
Ok sooooo last night we saw 4 different matches where wrestlers kick out of finishers! I think it's starting to get a little rediculous. I understand sometimes but I feel like it's been more as of late.
Does this bother anyone else?
Brie kicked out of Nikki's back breaker move Cena kicked out of the rko like it was nothing Orton kicked out of 2 AA Ambrose kicked out of the curb stomp Sheamus kicked out of skull crushing finale
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Post by cordless2016 on Oct 27, 2014 13:35:06 GMT -5
It should be ultra rare. The idea of a finisher is that it finishes the match. Only in rare instances should it not. Most finishers are seen as crap today because everyone kicks out of em.
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Post by Rob on Oct 27, 2014 13:36:48 GMT -5
Its very stupid. I remember when a finisher was like the final nail in the coffin when it was hit. Now guys take a finisher and get right back up 4 seconds later.
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Post by Planktung on Oct 27, 2014 13:39:36 GMT -5
It's the easiest way to make a match more interesting. Not so much when it happens repeatedly in one night, though.
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Post by Andrewghbk99 on Oct 27, 2014 13:40:43 GMT -5
Exactly! Like undertakers tombstone. You only started seeig people kick out of that when hbk and HHH started facing him at wrestlemania.
You had the rare moment with kane at wrestlemania 14 but other than that it was a rare case.
I swear everyone kicks out of the aa and rko now a days. I could understand if it only happened in one of those matches last night but all 4!
I'm not critizing the product, so don't go there anyone with me on that. I love the product actually, I'm just saying in general slow down with the kicking out, It takes away from the excitement of false finishes when it's really needed.
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Post by marino13 on Oct 27, 2014 13:43:01 GMT -5
When you grow up during the height Hulk-a-mania, kicking out of finishers is nothing new or surprising. Doesn't bother me anymore.
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Post by T R W on Oct 27, 2014 13:44:17 GMT -5
It is an extremely over used plot device because they seem to have forgotten how to tell a story in the ring with a lot of matches. Once a PPV seems like too much to me. It started happening more often during the attitude era, but now it is just completely rampant.
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Post by Chip on Oct 27, 2014 13:47:55 GMT -5
i have more of an issue how most matches nowadays are either a complete routine by the big babyface leading to his finisher being reversed 3 times then he hits it for a W
or the match has no real flow or story, just both guys kicking out of power moves and finishers 50 times so Cole can go "WHAT A MATCH!!!!"
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Post by jayrod2009 on Oct 27, 2014 13:50:37 GMT -5
My onky issue of this was Ambrose kicking out of the curb stomp. This leveled Lesner. Now, did Lesner go through a match with Cena where he also received an AA? Yes. But the Curb Stomp layed out Lesner, with that logic, Ambrose should have been finished. However, logic also shows the AA is a simpke standing firemans carry, amd shouldn't be a finisher.
Iit angers me more that Cesaro was beat 2-0 in the 2 out of 3 falls match.
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Post by Andrewghbk99 on Oct 27, 2014 13:51:07 GMT -5
Like the cesaro match? Lol he should have the pin on one of those power moves he used on ziggler.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Oct 27, 2014 13:57:01 GMT -5
I think everybody thought "well this show has had a crappy build, so let's make our match epic" and didn't realise everyone else was kicking out of finishers everywhere too.
Also:
Orton got out of the STF Nikki kicked out of Brie's X Factor Nikki got out of Brie's Yes Lock Ziggler kicked out of about 50 moves of Cesaro's that seemed like finishers
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 14:06:46 GMT -5
Sheamus and Brie kicking out was unnecessary.
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ohernan6
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'Cause That's How I Roll!
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Post by ohernan6 on Oct 27, 2014 15:04:53 GMT -5
I don't know if people will agree with my logic, but Orton vs. Cena should have been the ONLY match where opponents kick-out of finishers. They have a long history of fighting each other that they would start to build strength against each other's finisher.
On the other hand, nobody should be kicking out of Ambrose's or Rollins' finisher for a few more years. In my eyes, these guys are still up and comers (even though they main-evented last night) and the WWE should establish their finishers to be as strong as the Pedigree, Stunner, Tombstone, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 15:11:30 GMT -5
They seem to be taking cues from RoH. I love RoH, don't get me wrong (specifically 2002-2006 RoH), but they do the same thing and it annoys the hell out of me.
Kicking out of finishers should be a WrestleMania type deal....and if it makes sense. Like HBK kicking out of the tombstone or Rock/SCSA kicking out of the Stunner/Rock Bottom. It adds drama if done correctly.
Nowadays its the norm to kick out of an RKO or to wiggle out of the STF. But whatever. People who have WAAAAAY more money than me know what they're doing...I suppose.
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jcjdotcom
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Post by jcjdotcom on Oct 27, 2014 15:25:30 GMT -5
It depends on the situation. Early in a match when both guys are fresh, kicking out of a finisher is fine. When it's been a long, hard-fought match, you should not be able to kick out of a finisher. If the move is that devastating and both guys are tired it should finish the match.
If it has been an almost entirely one-sided match, the dominate guy should be able to kick out of a finisher. For example, Sheamus and Cesaro had a great match several weeks ago. Cesaro got the upper hand and was dominating Sheamus, including hitting several kicks to the face of Sheamus. Suddly, Sheamus hits his finisher kick and Cesaro it totally out. The kick should have changed momentum, but it shouldn't have ended the match.
I also think that a finisher should also look like a powerful move and shouldn't have an excessive setup. The best finishers - as much as I hate to admit it - should be like the RKO or the Stunner. It out of nowhere. Finishers that require guys to bend over or just sit there like an idiot are kind of silly. The choke slam, the 619, the curb stomp, the pedigree and many others take a long time to set up and people often have to sit in an unnatural position. I know it's a suspend disbelief situation, but sometimes these finishers are just awkward.
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Post by Happy Pizza on Oct 27, 2014 15:33:33 GMT -5
I call this "Big Match TNA syndrome". I first noticed TNA doing it a few years ago in matches with Joe and AJ. They have people eat finishers left and right and kick out, which can be a cool thing if utilized correctly, but they'll botch it and have somebody kick out of a finisher four times just to make the match seem special. And now WWE does it too, most egregiously in the Cena/Rock matches.
If you're only ten minutes into a big match and Cena has already taken the rope DDT, a few backbreakers, the powerslam, and kicked out of two RKOs, what can Randy possibly do to win?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 16:09:02 GMT -5
It's definitely the trend nowadays; as opposed to matches with logical and resolute psychology which bores most crowds these days IMO it's done as an attempt to try to conceal certain flaws in storytelling in hopes that it'll get a reaction from the crowd.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 16:12:21 GMT -5
Only for matches that have had a big feud behind them and this is the end or if it's a main event of a big show. Or if it's at the start of a match.
It's only acceptable then for me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 16:19:23 GMT -5
My onky issue of this was Ambrose kicking out of the curb stomp. This leveled Lesner. Now, did Lesner go through a match with Cena where he also received an AA? Yes. But the Curb Stomp layed out Lesner, with that logic, Ambrose should have been finished. However, logic also shows the AA is a simpke standing firemans carry, amd shouldn't be a finisher. Iit angers me more that Cesaro was beat 2-0 in the 2 out of 3 falls match. Didn't Lesnar take four AA's in that match? Four finishers from the company's top guy will do that to you.
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Post by k5 on Oct 27, 2014 16:38:35 GMT -5
yep, it's over utilized and has lost all real effectiveness of making a match seem epic. wrestlemania main events are almost jokes from this at this point.
first place i ever saw it used like this was ecw. that said, even they had their finishes that were respected as deadly...but i can't count how many ddts got kicked out of of sandman's, raven's, dreamer's...
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