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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 29, 2014 16:32:44 GMT -5
I am kind of curious to hear what people have to say about this topic.
I am watching Survivor Series 89 right now, and as soon as Hogan's music hit, everyone in the crowd goes nuts. From young to old. Kids, teenagers, adult males, everyone!
Hogan was a big time baby face, played by the rules, had about 5 moves in his arsenal, and the fans loved him for years!
John Cena is a big time baby face, plays by the rules, has about 5 moves in his arsenal, and gets booed by teenagers and adults for the most part.
So what was it about Hogan in the 80s and early 90s to have EVERY fan, of EVERY age cheer him on during his matches, yet older fans can't stand John Cena??
Was it the attitude era?? Did that ruin what a typical baby face is supposed to be for the young adults now, who were kids and teens during the attitude era??
Would love to hear what people have to say.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 16:34:09 GMT -5
Hogan didn't always play by the rules. He'd do illegal stuff all the time. Older fans can't stand Cena because after you have an Austin type babyface, you can't go back to the squeaky clean superhero babyface. Doesn't hurt that they've never really evolved his character and that he's been written like a complete dipsh-t who takes nothing seriously and makes lame jokes for years. Cena is great, people are going to realize that once he's done.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Sept 29, 2014 16:39:44 GMT -5
Hogan didn't always play by the rules. He'd do illegal stuff all the time. Older fans can't stand Cena because after you have an Austin type babyface, you can't go back to the squeaky clean superhero babyface. Doesn't hurt that they've never really evolved his character and that he's been written like a complete dipsh-t who takes nothing seriously and makes lame jokes for years. Cena is great, people are going to realize that once he's done. There is, quite honestly, possibly no better answer.
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Post by The Gangsta on Sept 29, 2014 16:40:44 GMT -5
In part, you could blame the attitude era. But, truthfully, Cena was liked by many during the Ruthless Aggression era. His usual gangster-like antics drove the crowd nuts, so everybody liked him. But when WWE changed to PG in 2008, Cena's character was forced to adopt to the majority of his fans, the kids. This sparked the adults/teens to dislike him because you can see that his character right now is dull and bland at times.
The above one explains it well too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 17:05:21 GMT -5
In part, you could blame the attitude era. But, truthfully, Cena was liked by many during the Ruthless Aggression era. His usual gangster-like antics drove the crowd nuts, so everybody liked him. But when WWE changed to PG in 2008, Cena's character was forced to adopt to the majority of his fans, the kids. This sparked the adults/teens to dislike him because you can see that his character right now is dull and bland at times. The above one explains it well too. People were turning on him in 2005 because they put him over Angle, HBK and Jericho. They were cheering Triple ing H of all people at WrestleMania 22.
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hbkowns
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Post by hbkowns on Sept 29, 2014 17:07:54 GMT -5
Cena has been more stale than a year old bag of chips. He's been stale since 2007. I really respect and admire Cena for all he's done for us and the company.People might crap all over Cena for not being a technical god and not doing a moonsault, but the fact is that Cena puts asses in seats. Cena nearly anchors the company on his back.
But there's a huge problem with that. This generation of Cena fans (kids) aren't going to be John Cena fans forever and more importantly John Cena isn't going to be here forever. wwe has been very comfortable with this position for the better part of a decade. They feel like they don't need to build new stars, or top stars specifically. Its going to bite them in the ass because we, core audience (which is very thin), are complacent with the product. And that casual audience comes and goes throughout the years.
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Post by marino13 on Sept 29, 2014 17:12:01 GMT -5
Little known fact: People in the 80's were stupid. I was. You were. Everyone was. I blame it on hairspray, Alf, and Delorean car doors.
And that was before the internet. Once the internet came out everyone and their brother thought their opinion mattered. And everyone became an expert. And then we went from innocent viewers, to thinking we were somehow part of the business.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Sept 29, 2014 17:12:49 GMT -5
If the IWC were as prominent back then, there's no way Hogan would have had the career he had.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 17:33:37 GMT -5
Cena has been more stale than a year old bag of chips. He's been stale since 2007. I really respect and admire Cena for all he's done for us and the company.People might crap all over Cena for not being a technical god and not doing a moonsault, but the fact is that Cena puts asses in seats. Cena nearly anchors the company on his back. But there's a huge problem with that. This generation of Cena fans (kids) aren't going to be John Cena fans forever and more importantly John Cena isn't going to be here forever. wwe has been very comfortable with this position for the better part of a decade. They feel like they don't need to build new stars, or top stars specifically. Its going to bite them in the ass because we, core audience (which is very thin), are complacent with the product. And that casual audience comes and goes throughout the years. Kind of like when Hogan was the top guy and they knew they could keep going back to him and milking that money machine until it no longer worked.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 17:38:25 GMT -5
Amother thing I've noticed is, some people just like the bad guy more now. Example is how the Joker is so popular.
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Post by skribbel24 on Sept 29, 2014 17:45:20 GMT -5
Eventually, it will all come down to Hogan, Cena and Austin being the biggest stars ever.
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Post by rustyy on Sept 29, 2014 17:57:24 GMT -5
Little known fact: People in the 80's were stupid. I was. You were. Everyone was. I blame it on hairspray, Alf, and Delorean car doors. And that was before the internet. Once the internet came out everyone and their brother thought their opinion mattered. And everyone became an expert. And then we went from innocent viewers, to thinking we were somehow part of the business. You don't have to be a part of the business to see that putting John Cena over everyone is a bad move. If the IWC were as prominent back then, there's no way Hogan would have had the career he had. Bullcrap, Vince didn't care what fans wanted then, he doesn't care what they want now. Amother thing I've noticed is, some people just like the bad guy more now. Example is how the Joker is so popular. More so in WWE too, because every babyface is exactly the same, with the smiling, joking and no selling everything a heel does to them. And they never lose.
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Post by marino13 on Sept 29, 2014 17:59:39 GMT -5
Little known fact: People in the 80's were stupid. I was. You were. Everyone was. I blame it on hairspray, Alf, and Delorean car doors. And that was before the internet. Once the internet came out everyone and their brother thought their opinion mattered. And everyone became an expert. And then we went from innocent viewers, to thinking we were somehow part of the business. You don't have to be a part of the business to see that putting John Cena over everyone is a bad move. Ok.
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Post by rustyy on Sept 29, 2014 18:20:38 GMT -5
You don't have to be a part of the business to see that putting John Cena over everyone is a bad move. Ok. Good debate, that was fun. Why did you even bother responding if that was all you had to say? Lol.
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Arthur Speaks
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Post by Arthur Speaks on Sept 29, 2014 18:31:23 GMT -5
Oh, that's an easy one. With the IWC and the Attitude Era in the history books, Cena's character no longer sells it universally. Cena will never have the pull Hogan had because they performed in two different generations. And with Cena's generation, they're a lot more cynical and judgmental.
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Kollecting King
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Post by Kollecting King on Sept 29, 2014 19:34:31 GMT -5
Cena has been on the top of the cards now longer than hogan was. Thats pretty mind blowing and hogan was getting a lukewarm reception at wrestlemania 9 and at king of the ring so cena is at least a year past that point in hogans career. Also the attitude era does have something to do with it as opposed to the PG era. But here is another factor that shows how different it is during all of hogan's wwf run at the top the fact that you ever saw hogan on anything other than pay per view in a match was a huge event like saturday nights main event. Sure he wrestled on the house shows but on actual TV was far and few between so on average during hogans run he was in actual televised matches probably between 15-25 times a year at the most whereas cena is wrestling weekly along with ppvs so he usually is on tv wrestling roughly 55-70 times a year which is almost 3 times as much as hogan's matches. That along with a 20 minute promo each week and constantly talking about him i think that has a ton to do with cena being booed just due to over saturation on TV.
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Post by marino13 on Sept 29, 2014 21:23:25 GMT -5
Good debate, that was fun. Why did you even bother responding if that was all you had to say? Lol. Dunno. WWF fed everyone and their brother to Hogan in the 80's so it really is no different. Least Cena is willing to lose clean occasionally.
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Post by rustyy on Sept 29, 2014 21:27:10 GMT -5
Good debate, that was fun. Why did you even bother responding if that was all you had to say? Lol. Dunno. WWF fed everyone and their brother to Hogan in the 80's so it really is no different. Least Cena is willing to lose clean occasionally. And that was in the 80's, it's 2014. The same crap doesn't work anymore, they need change. Hogan was also never booed out out of the building, especially not every week.
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Post by marino13 on Sept 29, 2014 21:31:41 GMT -5
Dunno. WWF fed everyone and their brother to Hogan in the 80's so it really is no different. Least Cena is willing to lose clean occasionally. And that was in the 80's, it's 2014. The same crap doesn't work anymore, they need change. Hogan was also never booed out out of the building, especially not every week. Wasn't this thread to compare Hogan to Cena? If so, then I kinda have to bring up Hogan's 80's run. Oh and I'm pretty sure I knew what year it was. Thanks though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 21:58:03 GMT -5
Dunno. WWF fed everyone and their brother to Hogan in the 80's so it really is no different. Least Cena is willing to lose clean occasionally. And that was in the 80's, it's 2014. The same crap doesn't work anymore, they need change. Hogan was also never booed out out of the building, especially not every week. The crowd popped when Flair eliminated Hogan from the 1992 Rumble. They booed him (though not as much as Cena) the night he lost to Yokozuna. You could see kids in the crowd celebrating when Undertaker beat him at Survivor Series 1991. Don't act like fans weren't sick of Hulk, they were. "The same crap doesn't work anymore"? If they gave Ambrose Cena's push you'd be talking about how it's a brilliant booking decision and you know it. If the IWC were as prominent back then, there's no way Hogan would have had the career he had. Bullcrap, Vince didn't care what fans wanted then, he doesn't care what they want now. Back during the peak Hogan's run, the fans wanted Hogan and smart fans largely didn't exist. Everyone watched wrestling, nobody bitched about booking or used terms like "bury" not knowing what they meant. People watched the ing matches and enjoyed based on what they wanted to see. Imagine that. If Hogan didn't work and didn't get over, Vince's whole national expansion would have failed. Hulk is pretty much everything you want a top star to be. Charismatic, can cut a great promo, has a good look, can work a good match (I'll post several Hogan matches if you want to try to sell me some bullsh-t that Hogan couldn't work) and knows how to present himself as a STAR.
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