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Post by Evil Abed on Jul 19, 2014 4:36:39 GMT -5
I don't really buy the whole WCW and ECW stars are treated poorly. Guys like RVD, Booker, Eddie, Rey, Jericho, Show, Goldberg ended up winning one of the major world titles in WWE.
Most of the other guys were either unprofessional upon their arrival or just getting old and out of shape.
DDP - Neck Injury, Age ended his career that started at a late age to begin with.
Bagwell - Screwed himself really
Steiner - Was completely out of ring shape when he came to WWE. He had a decent following on his way in but couldnt work a match to save his life. Anyone saying Triple H buried him, please go back and watch their 2 PPV matches. If you can make it through both entirely, I'll listen to whatever story you're trying to feed.
Hall - Released due to his substance abuse problems
Mr Perfect - Released due to substance abuse problems
Guys like Palumbo, Helms, Storm, Kidman all went on to have decently successful careers in WWE winning Tag Titles, IC Titles, and Cruiserweight Titles.
I don't buy that WWE misused any of the WCW talent.
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jakksking1
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Post by jakksking1 on Jul 19, 2014 5:19:28 GMT -5
When the complaints come in about WCW guys being treated poorly, no one is talking about pre-Invasion WCW talent. Vince took the top mid tier talent WCW was holding down and pushed them.
Look at the invasion talent, that's the WCW guys he buried. I mean, Team WCW had Steve Austin and the Dudley Boys on it. Three fifths of the team was WWF guy that's how much Vince didn't trust their talent.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 7:56:58 GMT -5
OP must've been on the Wrestlezone forums. I was as well and I was very amused.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 8:32:55 GMT -5
Buff screwed Buff
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jul 19, 2014 8:58:15 GMT -5
Look at the invasion talent, that's the WCW guys he buried. I mean, Team WCW had Steve Austin and the Dudley Boys on it. Three fifths of the team was WWF guy that's how much Vince didn't trust their talent. Austin wasn't on Team Alliance at InVasion, he captained Team WWF and turned on them at the end of the match. The InVasion team was Booker T, DDP, Rhyno and the Dudleys. And looking at the roster that came in with WCW, there weren't many other choices... I guess Lance Storm or Mike Awesome could have been in there instead of Rhyno, but that's just a lateral move really. The acquired WCW talent was mostly midcard talent who had only been featured in the dying days of WCW. DDP and Booker were the only stars, and they (DDP in particular) should have been protected more. But that's the nature of wrestling, particularly in that era... The guys on top in the successful company didn't want to sacrifice their spot to an old man who scripted his matches and came from a failed promotion. Booker, Benoit and Rey all also won the "B Title" and were never made the "face" or main champion. So unless someone becomes the new Hogan/Austin/Rock/Cena, they're "mistreated"? Nonsense. Plus, when Chris Benoit won the World title, it was THE major title. It was on the flagship show, and he beat Triple H and Shawn Michaels for it in the main event of WrestleMania. It was only after Cena and Batista switched a year later that the WWE title became the big one again. All three names you mentioned were much more famous and made much more money in WWE than they ever did in WCW. Rey Mysterio -- who won a World title at WrestleMania but never at Starrcade -- has made several million dollars in merchandise alone in WWE. Did he ever even have a t-shirt in WCW? And he never won a world title in WCW either. He was a midcard guy, then became a top guy in WWE after getting clean of (most) drugs and working his way up to being a major league talent. So he doesn't fit at all as an example of WWE "mistreating" WCW wrestlers.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 9:40:38 GMT -5
Wb Glacier
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jakksking1
Main Eventer
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Post by jakksking1 on Jul 19, 2014 9:48:21 GMT -5
Look at the invasion talent, that's the WCW guys he buried. I mean, Team WCW had Steve Austin and the Dudley Boys on it. Three fifths of the team was WWF guy that's how much Vince didn't trust their talent. Austin wasn't on Team Alliance at InVasion, he captained Team WWF and turned on them at the end of the match. The InVasion team was Booker T, DDP, Rhyno and the Dudleys. And looking at the roster that came in with WCW, there weren't many other choices... I guess Lance Storm or Mike Awesome could have been in there instead of Rhyno, but that's just a lateral move really. The acquired WCW talent was mostly midcard talent who had only been featured in the dying days of WCW. DDP and Booker were the only stars, and they (DDP in particular) should have been protected more. But that's the nature of wrestling, particularly in that era... The guys on top in the successful company didn't want to sacrifice their spot to an old man who scripted his matches and came from a failed promotion. Booker, Benoit and Rey all also won the "B Title" and were never made the "face" or main champion. So unless someone becomes the new Hogan/Austin/Rock/Cena, they're "mistreated"? Nonsense. Plus, when Chris Benoit won the World title, it was THE major title. It was on the flagship show, and he beat Triple H and Shawn Michaels for it in the main event of WrestleMania. It was only after Cena and Batista switched a year later that the WWE title became the big one again. All three names you mentioned were much more famous and made much more money in WWE than they ever did in WCW. Rey Mysterio -- who won a World title at WrestleMania but never at Starrcade -- has made several million dollars in merchandise alone in WWE. Did he ever even have a t-shirt in WCW? And he never won a world title in WCW either. He was a midcard guy, then became a top guy in WWE after getting clean of (most) drugs and working his way up to being a major league talent. So he doesn't fit at all as an example of WWE "mistreating" WCW wrestlers. My bad I was mixing the invasion with the alliance team at SS01 which was Austin, Shane and Angle vs the WWF. They obviously should have waited to properly do an invasion angle until the AOL contracts expired. Hell Flair debuted the night after SS. WCW as a whole looked so weak against team WWF no matter who the talent was. The two biggest initial talents got buried. The way DDP was handled was terrible. Booker T, despite having success, was buried by HHH at Mania. As a whole, they just looked terrible.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jul 19, 2014 10:04:03 GMT -5
They obviously should have waited to properly do an invasion angle until the AOL contracts expired. That wouldn't have worked either. They had to strike while the iron was hot -- waiting until the nWo guys came in might have been too late. Waiting for Goldberg definitely would have been too late. Flair definitely could have come in earlier though, but I guess the thinking was that the Alliance shouldn't have a hundred year old wrestler as its main guy.
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Post by Cassa Nova Kid on Jul 19, 2014 11:22:39 GMT -5
Austin wasn't on Team Alliance at InVasion, he captained Team WWF and turned on them at the end of the match. The InVasion team was Booker T, DDP, Rhyno and the Dudleys. And looking at the roster that came in with WCW, there weren't many other choices... I guess Lance Storm or Mike Awesome could have been in there instead of Rhyno, but that's just a lateral move really. The acquired WCW talent was mostly midcard talent who had only been featured in the dying days of WCW. DDP and Booker were the only stars, and they (DDP in particular) should have been protected more. But that's the nature of wrestling, particularly in that era... The guys on top in the successful company didn't want to sacrifice their spot to an old man who scripted his matches and came from a failed promotion. So unless someone becomes the new Hogan/Austin/Rock/Cena, they're "mistreated"? Nonsense. Plus, when Chris Benoit won the World title, it was THE major title. It was on the flagship show, and he beat Triple H and Shawn Michaels for it in the main event of WrestleMania. It was only after Cena and Batista switched a year later that the WWE title became the big one again. All three names you mentioned were much more famous and made much more money in WWE than they ever did in WCW. Rey Mysterio -- who won a World title at WrestleMania but never at Starrcade -- has made several million dollars in merchandise alone in WWE. Did he ever even have a t-shirt in WCW? And he never won a world title in WCW either. He was a midcard guy, then became a top guy in WWE after getting clean of (most) drugs and working his way up to being a major league talent. So he doesn't fit at all as an example of WWE "mistreating" WCW wrestlers. My bad I was mixing the invasion with the alliance team at SS01 which was Austin, Shane and Angle vs the WWF. They obviously should have waited to properly do an invasion angle until the AOL contracts expired. Hell Flair debuted the night after SS. WCW as a whole looked so weak against team WWF no matter who the talent was. The two biggest initial talents got buried. The way DDP was handled was terrible. Booker T, despite having success, was buried by HHH at Mania. As a whole, they just looked terrible. Originally Bookert T was supposed to win wrestlemania. I think it was a last minute change for some reason to have H go over.
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Post by Mr. Show on Jul 19, 2014 11:27:55 GMT -5
Steiner was a huge deal at first, but those matches with HHH killed his momentum. They were terrible.
Buff Bagwell was garbage. He deserved his kick out the door.
DDP should have been bigger. His only Wrestlemania match ever was for the European title. Thats a shame.
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Post by Nivro™ on Jul 19, 2014 11:34:13 GMT -5
Look at the invasion talent, that's the WCW guys he buried. I mean, Team WCW had Steve Austin and the Dudley Boys on it. Three fifths of the team was WWF guy that's how much Vince didn't trust their talent. Austin wasn't on Team Alliance at InVasion, he captained Team WWF and turned on them at the end of the match. The InVasion team was Booker T, DDP, Rhyno and the Dudleys. And looking at the roster that came in with WCW, there weren't many other choices... I guess Lance Storm or Mike Awesome could have been in there instead of Rhyno, but that's just a lateral move really. The acquired WCW talent was mostly midcard talent who had only been featured in the dying days of WCW. DDP and Booker were the only stars, and they (DDP in particular) should have been protected more. But that's the nature of wrestling, particularly in that era... The guys on top in the successful company didn't want to sacrifice their spot to an old man who scripted his matches and came from a failed promotion. Booker, Benoit and Rey all also won the "B Title" and were never made the "face" or main champion. So unless someone becomes the new Hogan/Austin/Rock/Cena, they're "mistreated"? Nonsense. Plus, when Chris Benoit won the World title, it was THE major title. It was on the flagship show, and he beat Triple H and Shawn Michaels for it in the main event of WrestleMania. It was only after Cena and Batista switched a year later that the WWE title became the big one again. All three names you mentioned were much more famous and made much more money in WWE than they ever did in WCW. Rey Mysterio -- who won a World title at WrestleMania but never at Starrcade -- has made several million dollars in merchandise alone in WWE. Did he ever even have a t-shirt in WCW? And he never won a world title in WCW either. He was a midcard guy, then became a top guy in WWE after getting clean of (most) drugs and working his way up to being a major league talent. So he doesn't fit at all as an example of WWE "mistreating" WCW wrestlers. Im just giving my opinion on how it can be seen as mistreated. Devils advocate. I honestly couldnt care less. IMO WCW was always greater/more important then WWE. So I could care less what someone does in the WWE. For ever "good thing" a WCW star did on their own, WWE did 2-3 other things that were just as terrible. WCW made a star out of Booker T and then Rock trashes him when he walks into a WWF ring. They turn him into a silly ass "royal", dude is from the streets of Houston not London. Goldberg has wins over Rock & Triple H but ultimately feuded with mid carders his entire tenure and in the end lost his feud with Triple H. Booker, Benoit and Rey all also won the "B Title" and were never made the "face" or main champion. Rey also only got the title because of Eddie's death. Speaking of which, Eddie earned his title but he was fired once or twice before ever getting there. He lingered around mid card status for years. Its not like he was pushed to the moon right away. The only guys to have come from WCW into the WWF and not had their legacies "damaged" were Flair, Luger and Sid. All of which were brought in, used as main eventers, feuded with main eventers and then when they left they were "no less" of a star then when they came in. Benoit won the main title at the time, the whc which main evented and was the raw belt. Rey has also won both. Eddie had personal problems which is why he was let go. It was still the "B Title" though. They can stick it on Raw and have it in the last match at Mania, WWE was never going to take it serious in the end. The WWE Title was still the "brass ring"
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Post by ~ Cymru ~ on Jul 19, 2014 13:24:53 GMT -5
I know a lot of people say the wcw guys were treated bad, but were they really . 1- Booker T invasion leader and won Tag , Ic, HVW belts & KOTR tournament 2- Bill Goldberg feuded with Lesnar , The Rock, HHH,& won the HVW belt 3 - Chris Benoit was pushed won HVW belt ( He did have to work a for it though) 4- Chris Jericho - a nobody in wcw main star in WWE 5- Big Show was brought in as a main Star 6- Rey Mysterio doing way better in E then wcw 7 Eddie Guerrero , they gave him the world title thats not bad at all since wcw never really cared about him. ------- Scott Steiner- was miss treated he fell to a nobody DDP- was getting ready to slow down his carrer Buff Bagwell - Totaly got screwed over So 3 out of 10 guys dis not get treated well, am I missing somthing ? To tie this in with everything current sting said he is afraid of being missed used like all the others what others? Although I dont agree with a lot of what you're saying Booker - T didnt get close to the world title for like 10 years after WCW shut down, and genuniely got made to look like a dumb thug for his early WWF years. Goldberg, meh he was way too over in WCW to come to WWE as a nobody, not when they could feed him to their top heel Triple H (which they did) and then to have him fade away to fueding nobodys. Bischoff never liked Jericho and has said countless times he doesnt think Jericho is main even caliber. Rey only got to world title status off of Eddie's death (I'm a big time Mysterio fan, but that is what I believe) and Eddie and Beniot's rise to world title status was one of those "feel good" moments that they needed for their "feel good ppv" however, I dont think there was a conspiracy to hurt the name of WCW, out of the hundereds of thousands of people who wrestle around the globe only a handful of people will ever perform for wwe, and an even smaller amount will win championships and do really well.
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Post by Ian from 616Entertainment. on Jul 19, 2014 13:49:53 GMT -5
Sting has something that's really hard to find nowadays and you seem to have no concept of. Artistic integrity. It's not always about the money. And the integrity to go disgrace his legacy in TNA. He would have been booked fine in WWE he was just being paranoid. Booker was a champ, Goldberg was a champ, and Jericho was too. DDP was old, and pretty much everything the OP said. I didn't know 3 World Championships was considered a disgrace.
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Post by PJ on Jul 19, 2014 14:04:05 GMT -5
I wouldn't even count Benoit, Eddie, Jericho and Flair because they were treated better because they came prior to WCW's demise (Benoit, Eddie, Jericho) and Flair was Flair. But guys like Booker, DDP, Steiner & Goldberg who were huge in WCW were all treated like they were NXT jobbers and had to prove themselves again.
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Post by rustyy on Jul 19, 2014 14:07:44 GMT -5
And the integrity to go disgrace his legacy in TNA. He would have been booked fine in WWE he was just being paranoid. Booker was a champ, Goldberg was a champ, and Jericho was too. DDP was old, and pretty much everything the OP said. I didn't know 3 World Championships was considered a disgrace. Lol the tna title is worthless.
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Post by Evil Abed on Jul 19, 2014 15:52:31 GMT -5
I wouldn't even count Benoit, Eddie, Jericho and Flair because they were treated better because they came prior to WCW's demise (Benoit, Eddie, Jericho) and Flair was Flair. But guys like Booker, DDP, Steiner & Goldberg who were huge in WCW were all treated like they were NXT jobbers and had to prove themselves again. Ill agree with the first half of your statement, but no offense, I stopped listening after you said Booker, Steiner and Goldberg were treated like NXT jobbers. DDP probably should have gotten a better shake but at his age I understand the logic of not wanting to push him much when he only lasted less than a year anyways. Booker was the face of WCW right out of the gate during the Invasion and stayed in high profile matches throughout most of his career, ill meet you halfway on him. But you're only kidding yourself if you think Steiner and Goldberg were treated like jobbers. Steiner came in, was thrown immediately into the World Title picture and couldnt work a match, that might have been ok in WCW where a lot of intimidation rumors were flying around about how he became champion, but Vince wasnt going to put someone in the spotlight for long who can't put on a halfway decent match. And I really don't know where you're coming from on Goldberg, he came right in and beat the Rock and Jericho, then won the World Title less than 6 months after his debut. The only reason in my mind that he lost the title was that his contracted number of dates were running out and he couldn't carry the title and not be on TV. I mean the guy in the span of one year beat Rock, Jericho, Triple H, and Lesnar. Name me an NXT jobber that did anything close to that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 16:15:18 GMT -5
Alot of 1999, most of 2000, and all of WCW 2001(5 months?) was complete s***.
When I think of WCW, I think of Sting, Ric Flair, and Goldberg.
I never bought into the DDP hype and "bro, he's a little overrated"
Sting has been shown respect by WWE to this day(IMO)
Goldberg made his own bed for the most part. If you've seen one Goldberg match, you've seen them all. I like the fact that WWE didn't let him come right in and practically squash the top WWE guy. Oh wait. He did. So, like I said, I think he made his own bed. Go watch Backlash 2003. If you don't hear a lot of boos for Goldberg then you're clearly a fool. I watched the Goldberg DVD WWE put out, in his WWE matches, he was getting cheered during his entrances, by the time the match progressed and finished, a lot of the cheers shifted to boos. That's because Goldberg botched sometimes and his in ring work was repetitive, and pretty much sucked.
Ric Flair. Only two time Hall of Famer. Always treated with high regard and respect. Enough said.
Steiner was garbage. I don't care what anyone says. I never took him seriously after hearing those WCW promos.
Mike Awesome? Lol.
Buff Bagwell? Lol.
Booker T made out just fine. Yeah he might've been mishandled at times, but you can't always be in the main event and it's up to you to stay fresh and relevant. (See Undertaker, Kane, HBK, Y2J)
They were basically handled for what they were worth.
I have no quarrels.
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Post by Ian from 616Entertainment. on Jul 19, 2014 17:04:28 GMT -5
I didn't know 3 World Championships was considered a disgrace. Lol the tna title is worthless. That's your opinion.
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Post by PJ on Jul 19, 2014 17:04:37 GMT -5
I wouldn't even count Benoit, Eddie, Jericho and Flair because they were treated better because they came prior to WCW's demise (Benoit, Eddie, Jericho) and Flair was Flair. But guys like Booker, DDP, Steiner & Goldberg who were huge in WCW were all treated like they were NXT jobbers and had to prove themselves again. Ill agree with the first half of your statement, but no offense, I stopped listening after you said Booker, Steiner and Goldberg were treated like NXT jobbers. DDP probably should have gotten a better shake but at his age I understand the logic of not wanting to push him much when he only lasted less than a year anyways. Booker was the face of WCW right out of the gate during the Invasion and stayed in high profile matches throughout most of his career, ill meet you halfway on him. But you're only kidding yourself if you think Steiner and Goldberg were treated like jobbers. Steiner came in, was thrown immediately into the World Title picture and couldnt work a match, that might have been ok in WCW where a lot of intimidation rumors were flying around about how he became champion, but Vince wasnt going to put someone in the spotlight for long who can't put on a halfway decent match. And I really don't know where you're coming from on Goldberg, he came right in and beat the Rock and Jericho, then won the World Title less than 6 months after his debut. The only reason in my mind that he lost the title was that his contracted number of dates were running out and he couldn't carry the title and not be on TV. I mean the guy in the span of one year beat Rock, Jericho, Triple H, and Lesnar. Name me an NXT jobber that did anything close to that. Come on that's not what I am talking about and you know it. They all were big stars who were treated disrespectfully when they came to the WWE because Vince was rubbing it in that he won the war. And if not for their talent and the fans support every one of them would have had to suffer some sort of Rock verbal abuse and Austin grocery store beatdown like Booker T had to go through. Every one of them was disrespected a little when they first came in. The first month or so there was always some comment or action that made them look like the came from a minor league organization.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 17:16:26 GMT -5
Ill agree with the first half of your statement, but no offense, I stopped listening after you said Booker, Steiner and Goldberg were treated like NXT jobbers. DDP probably should have gotten a better shake but at his age I understand the logic of not wanting to push him much when he only lasted less than a year anyways. Booker was the face of WCW right out of the gate during the Invasion and stayed in high profile matches throughout most of his career, ill meet you halfway on him. But you're only kidding yourself if you think Steiner and Goldberg were treated like jobbers. Steiner came in, was thrown immediately into the World Title picture and couldnt work a match, that might have been ok in WCW where a lot of intimidation rumors were flying around about how he became champion, but Vince wasnt going to put someone in the spotlight for long who can't put on a halfway decent match. And I really don't know where you're coming from on Goldberg, he came right in and beat the Rock and Jericho, then won the World Title less than 6 months after his debut. The only reason in my mind that he lost the title was that his contracted number of dates were running out and he couldn't carry the title and not be on TV. I mean the guy in the span of one year beat Rock, Jericho, Triple H, and Lesnar. Name me an NXT jobber that did anything close to that. Come on that's not what I am talking about and you know it. They all were big stars who were treated disrespectfully when they came to the WWE because Vince was rubbing it in that he won the war. And if not for their talent and the fans support every one of them would have had to suffer some sort of Rock verbal abuse and Austin grocery store beatdown like Booker T had to go through. Every one of them was disrespected a little when they first came in. The first month or so there was always some comment or action that made them look like the came from a minor league organization. Say you had a big business that basically your and your entire family's life rode on, and another big company was buying away a lot of your assets legitimately trying to put you out of business, and in the end, they ran themselves out of business and you purchased the rights to that company along with a few contracts of guys who weren't your own or at least in a way your own. Wouldn't you rub it in a little too?
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