LJN george steele prototype......not!

[ICHIBAN 一番]

wow, i was very tempted to purchase some ljn protos from woodrows, has anyone else got ant info on them? or panaceacreations?

Also, some of panaceacreations are made from HARD URETHANE, is this what all ljn protos were made of??

thanks :-)

[familyguy84]

I would say this is a pretty significant size difference

[Ruby Fusion]

Well woodrow's protos are bigger than the production figs; legit I'd say!

[lamby23]

Mar 6, 2010 0:03:30 GMT -5 akawildfire said:

Mar 5, 2010 2:09:05 GMT -5 ICHIBAN 一番 said:

ss-rolex bought quite a few. Someone on here bought a proto stretch george steele from him, no complaints so far. What do you know then???

Are you also saying the ones from Woodrow's Toy Closet are fake too?? i would have to disagree.

Yes, I'm saying especially Woodrow's Toy Closet protos are fakes.. I'm pretty sure that the original LJN protos were not made of Resin but I have no proof so let's just leave that as a opinion. The reason I'm persistant that Woodrow's are Fakes is this simple..... They are flawless,, There is absouletley no way that EVERY "proto/test shot" figure would remain 100% Excellent condition just remember "these" figures were used for pics for magazines/figure shows/advertisement at large events ,etc.... They were handled alot and shoot you can't even get a legit hand painted test shots/protos of modern figures today without there being paintloss/chips/missed eras,etc... and the protos nowadays are handled more carefully then they were in the 80's.. No I was not part of the toy business but I was involved in the restaurant business and providing "samples" of equipment and other items and there was not "excessive" care in handling the "protos"...It's funny how he has all these protos and every single 1 of them is MINT and shoot he sold 1 orton proto when he first listed it and then magically he got another one...LOL... or and as far as the size difference.. Go ahead ask him to take a pic of the proto side by side a original "released" figure and you show me the size difference he claims in his listings... So I stand behind this theory...Maybe 1 or 2 made it thru the cracks without being beat up some but for 1 person to have so many "mint" ones raises nothing but a red flag. At some point in time logic has to come into play here. This is probably the same seller who was pushing PLASTER LJN molds a few years back.....

Well said....I agree with you....check out this old Ricky SteamBoat "prototype". This is what you'd expect them to look like after all the handling

[lamby23]

Mar 6, 2010 7:47:56 GMT -5 lamby23 said:

Mar 6, 2010 0:03:30 GMT -5 akawildfire said:

Yes, I'm saying especially Woodrow's Toy Closet protos are fakes.. I'm pretty sure that the original LJN protos were not made of Resin but I have no proof so let's just leave that as a opinion. The reason I'm persistant that Woodrow's are Fakes is this simple..... They are flawless,, There is absouletley no way that EVERY "proto/test shot" figure would remain 100% Excellent condition just remember "these" figures were used for pics for magazines/figure shows/advertisement at large events ,etc.... They were handled alot and shoot you can't even get a legit hand painted test shots/protos of modern figures today without there being paintloss/chips/missed eras,etc... and the protos nowadays are handled more carefully then they were in the 80's.. No I was not part of the toy business but I was involved in the restaurant business and providing "samples" of equipment and other items and there was not "excessive" care in handling the "protos"...It's funny how he has all these protos and every single 1 of them is MINT and shoot he sold 1 orton proto when he first listed it and then magically he got another one...LOL... or and as far as the size difference.. Go ahead ask him to take a pic of the proto side by side a original "released" figure and you show me the size difference he claims in his listings... So I stand behind this theory...Maybe 1 or 2 made it thru the cracks without being beat up some but for 1 person to have so many "mint" ones raises nothing but a red flag. At some point in time logic has to come into play here. This is probably the same seller who was pushing PLASTER LJN molds a few years back.....

Well said....I agree with you....check out this old Ricky SteamBoat "prototype". This is what you'd expect them to look like after all the handling

I'd like to believe this Steamboat one is legit and this is my reasoning....follow this youtube link below (if they are not allowed I'm sorry, just delete it) While the kids in the commercial are playing with the toys if you look closely all the figures have some move to them (ie like the legs bend when they make them hit the ring) But not Steamboat. He looks solid. Also the hit he takes at the end could've broke his fingers if it was the same one....lol.

George Steele in the commercial looks like it may have the painted chest but it is hard to tell. He doesn't move much either when the kids are playing with him.

[greenmist]

Piper's legs definitely bend in the commercial. It does look like Steele has a bit of a painted chest.

Thanks lamby23 for posting that pic of the Steamboat proto. I haven't seen that in a while. I remember seeing it on eBay years ago for almost $2,000. That same seller also had a Bret Hart prototype, which was in bad shape. His hands were broken off. lamby, can you post a pic of the Bret Hart proto if you have it?

[lamby23]

Mar 6, 2010 12:00:47 GMT -5 greenmist said:

Piper's legs definitely bend in the commercial. It does look like Steele has a bit of a painted chest.

Thanks lamby23 for posting that pic of the Steamboat proto. I haven't seen that in a while. I remember seeing it on eBay years ago for almost $2,000. That same seller also had a Bret Hart prototype, which was in bad shape. His hands were broken off. lamby, can you post a pic of the Bret Hart proto if you have it?

Sorry don't have a pic of the Bret Hart prototype

[ICHIBAN 一番]

Mar 4, 2010 11:43:00 GMT -5 ICHIBAN 一番 said:

Classic listing on e bay, i cant link to it but heres a picture, made me laugh...

"george steele ljn prototype with hairy chest"



priceless

man, this fake george is currently on $61.00, whats going on??!!!!

[romafan87]

Mar 6, 2010 0:03:30 GMT -5 akawildfire said:

Mar 5, 2010 2:09:05 GMT -5 ICHIBAN 一番 said:

ss-rolex bought quite a few. Someone on here bought a proto stretch george steele from him, no complaints so far. What do you know then???

Are you also saying the ones from Woodrow's Toy Closet are fake too?? i would have to disagree.

Yes, I'm saying especially Woodrow's Toy Closet protos are fakes.. I'm pretty sure that the original LJN protos were not made of Resin but I have no proof so let's just leave that as a opinion. The reason I'm persistant that Woodrow's are Fakes is this simple..... They are flawless,, There is absouletley no way that EVERY "proto/test shot" figure would remain 100% Excellent condition just remember "these" figures were used for pics for magazines/figure shows/advertisement at large events ,etc.... They were handled alot and shoot you can't even get a legit hand painted test shots/protos of modern figures today without there being paintloss/chips/missed eras,etc... and the protos nowadays are handled more carefully then they were in the 80's.. No I was not part of the toy business but I was involved in the restaurant business and providing "samples" of equipment and other items and there was not "excessive" care in handling the "protos"...It's funny how he has all these protos and every single 1 of them is MINT and shoot he sold 1 orton proto when he first listed it and then magically he got another one...LOL... or and as far as the size difference.. Go ahead ask him to take a pic of the proto side by side a original "released" figure and you show me the size difference he claims in his listings... So I stand behind this theory...Maybe 1 or 2 made it thru the cracks without being beat up some but for 1 person to have so many "mint" ones raises nothing but a red flag. At some point in time logic has to come into play here. This is probably the same seller who was pushing PLASTER LJN molds a few years back.....

I'm assuming the large toy store is FAO Schwartz that he is referencing, and if it is, I have significant anecdotal evidence to believe that these prototypes are in fact real. According to someone who had seen the New York location's one time LJN display, there were multiple of each new figure on display before/during/after their release. My witness said they were larger than normal and were on display for many, many, many months, if not years.

There is a significant different between a test shot, a prototype taken to trade shows, and a prototype for store display. If they item was an in store display model, there is a very high chance it was handled at most 3 or 4 times.

Let me ask you this as to why they wouldn't be in flawless condition: the secondary market already existed for Barbies, GI Joes and to a lesser extent Mego figures at that point. If they were prototypes and the store was discarding them, why wouldn't someone pick them up and store them away?

In a few short years after that, the Star Wars market went from "we can't sell any of these" to "WOW! These POTF figures are worth a mint."

I appreciate your opinion and all, but that's all it is. You are selling this guy down the river on something you don't have a concrete answer to. You may think you are helping other collectors, but what in actuality you may be doing is hurting someone trying to make a living selling reputable goods. I would do further research on this matter before I would lambast these prototypes, particularly ones my witness is pretty confident he saw in an FAO Schwartz display, before you start saying this guy is cheating the system.

[redypiper]

Mar 6, 2010 17:11:29 GMT -5 ICHIBAN 一番 said:

Mar 4, 2010 11:43:00 GMT -5 ICHIBAN 一番 said:

Classic listing on e bay, i cant link to it but heres a picture, made me laugh...

"george steele ljn prototype with hairy chest"



priceless

man, this fake george is currently on $61.00, whats going on??!!!!

i was thinking the same thing
unbelievable

[woodrowstoys]

Hi Wildfire
I was told by an LJN collector about this thread.
I did not realize there was a discussion about my prototype
wrestling figures. I would like to address your post.
As another collector pointed out on here, these figures were special from the start, even though they were marketed as toys, the prototypes were obviously a real special thing.
Being a sportscard collector before LJN wrestling figures were released, I collected proof cards, misprints, sealed packs etc etc....the most rare stuff ! So being a fan of the old WWF, I immediately went after these figures. I was after them before they even hit the stores. So my quest for these figures ( even though the manager of the toy stores and other people who had access didn't really know why I was so crazy to get them....I am a real savvy collector) began back in 1984. Also, with my stepfather working for a toy distributor it didn't hurt my chances (and made many connections) of getting the coolest stuff. That is the reason why my prototypes are in such nice shape. Some of them do have some wear, just from storage, but I am real picky about condition and so I generally traded away the non-mint stuff years ago.
I had several protoypes with broken feet, missing fingers, chopped noses etc, but those are long gone and I kept the best of which are mostly listed on ebay right now. I also have lots of other stuff that only the salespeople and employees had (photos, salesbooks, artwork, press releases etc).
So I hope this addresses your thoughts on why my prototype figures are in such great shape.
Also, I just want to point out that there were about 3 stages of NON-RUBBER prototypes, so for example, there were probably 3 GEORGE THE ANIMAL STEELE resin figures with painted chest hairs. The one you see on the back of the package with the rough looking chest hair (probably a real rough mock up, just for photo shoots and maybe for a TV commercial) a toy fair figure and then the toy store display (the one I have). So while most of them are probably long gone, there might be a few figures out there where there are 2 (different) prototypes still in existance.
Also, all of the prototypes I have are one of a kind and I have never been lucky enough to own any other variations of the prototype figures I own.

[woodrowstoys]

Romafan87, good job on the research. Yes, I got my very first prototypes from FAO Schwarz. I wanted ALL of them but some other people had dibs on them, probably somebody who had a kid that wanted it and sadly that means they probably ended up broken and then to the landfill :-(
I can't remember exactly how many there were but at the time it was only about 20 different figures

[ICHIBAN 一番]

Great info woodrow, for those who have never heard of fao schwarz:

www.fao.com/shop/index.jsp?categoryId=3810527

[familyguy84]

I have to say when i look at this head to head with the dusty post. If i had to put my money on one being genuine it would definitely be these.

[tibbo]

Mar 6, 2010 22:53:26 GMT -5 woodrowstoys said:

I also have lots of other stuff that only the salespeople and employees had (photos, salesbooks, artwork, press releases etc).

Hey there!

Welcome to the board!

Scans of these items would certainly help to legitimise the authenticity of the items you sell.
If the items are real, you have certainly done a fantastic job of maintaining them!

[woodrowstoys]

If you look at my listing on Ebay for GEORGE THE ANIMAL STEELE prototype you will see that included with this item is a press release in regards to the then "NEW" LJN wrestling figures.
Maybe one of these days when I am working less than 16 hours a day I will catalog all that stuff LOL !

[tibbo]

Mar 7, 2010 14:26:22 GMT -5 woodrowstoys said:

If you look at my listing on Ebay for GEORGE THE ANIMAL STEELE prototype you will see that included with this item is a press release in regards to the then "NEW" LJN wrestling figures.
Maybe one of these days when I am working less than 16 hours a day I will catalog all that stuff LOL !

So in order to see the evidence that they are real you have to purchase the item? ...it's a bit late then haha.

From an external point of view, I think the uncertainty of the legitimacy of these items may be what is putting so many collectors off, as they have too high a price-tag to take any chances.

If you were able to scan-in/photograph the 'photos, salesbooks, artwork, press releases' etc that prove these items to be real, then not only will the collectors be more comfortable with bidding on the items, they may also be able to command a higher price.

Are any of these graded by the AFA?
This would also help to prove authenticity, and also highlight the immaculate quality of the figures..... AFA graded figures are also proven to be worth more amongst collectors

[woodrowstoys]

I actually inquired with AFA about that but they don't allow, in person grading unless it is at a toy show. I will NOT send these in the mail for AFA to drop on the floor and shatter.
Also, AFA would have to come to somebody like me to authenticate a prototype since they have probably never seen one. So in this case *I* am the expert, not them. I have been studying these figures for almost 26 years now, right down to the codes on the back of the figures.

[tibbo]

It would be great if you could post some of the photos, salesbooks, artwork, press releases etc.

I know personally if I were in a situation where somebody insisted they were the only true expert on a range of figures, but refused to get them graded for authenticity, and wouldn't provide me with any evidence until after the transaction was complete, I would be pretty dubious.

Especially given the high price tag, and oddly-immaculate condition as noted previously.

To be honest, if I had been studying these figures for the past 26 years, and truely considered myself the only real expert on the range, you would have to prise them from my cold dead hands....there is no way in hell I would be selling them on eBay so regularly

[woodrowstoys]

I am in no real hurry to sell them at all and I honestly don't have the time to aggresively try.
The only reason I am offering them is because I am finally closing in on my MBA and so I need the money to pay for school. It has been nice chatting with you all but off to work I go.
If anybody would like to chat with me about LJN's please feel free to send me a private message. I love talking LJN's. It might take me a week or 2 to reply with my schedule but I will eventually reply.
Happy collecting
-Woodrows-Toys